kuskohal asub M&M tegevuse piir ?

<div class="deleted_comment">Kommentaar on kustutatud EWR toimetuse poolt.
This comment has been deleted by EWR</div>

You can't please everyone. Please decide something and move forward...


...my vote is for a newly built facility.... :)

Doing major renovations to this current patchwork building was rejected by shareholders. Lack of capital funds and community occupancy during construction as proponents suggest makes this unaffordable, unhealthy, prolonged and irrational. Renovating an old patchwork only gets us an updated patchwork. Please wait a few more weeks and the Tulevik committee should present proposals from developers for shareholder and community review.

I hope no one minds if I get back to the EM topic but other ethnic groups have a church, gymnasium, meeting/class rooms, kitchen, hall all in one so that it is more multi-purpose. I think we can add to this existing building. Gym's are in high demand in the city and make a good profit.
The suur saal can be rented out but those 1960's lights must go.

Someone earlier said that it is well known who holds most of the shares. I have no idea, could someone enlighten me?

The future of EM has been an issue for years now. Can anyone summarize where we're at at the moment? All I have read is that there are studies being done etc. but what are the results? Is a decision forthcoming?

The possibilities I have heard are some Don Mills-Eglinton location, someone earlier suggested a location in the 905 area, Tartu College I have heard is an option and tearing down EM and building something in it's place is another. And then, some want to keep going the way we are now but I'm not sure that's viable for much longer.

Is anyone able to tell me what options are in fact being considered and what the pros and cons are of said options?

Someone earlier also said that Tartu College would be "difficult" because it is owned by the govt of Ontario. Does difficult mean undoable? Without knowing a ton of details that option (if doable) still sounds good mainly because the idea of consolidating two organizations into one seems practical. Let's face it, our numbers are dwindling and that process in speeding up, will never be reversed and the Esto society here is dying anyway, it's just a question of how many more years do we have and personally I hope it's still quite a few. How long can we have Tartu College, EM, Joekaaru, Seedrioru, KJ etc. Some consolidation seems inevitable. We had 2 Esto papers which merged into 1. Is there anyone that would say now that that was not a smart move?

Anyhow, if anyone could provide an overview of the facts in question, I would be grateful.

Toomas, despite your at times prickliness you are I believe somewhat knowledgeable about issues in our community, perhaps you can add something of substance here instead of being our resident spell-checker? I would be surprised if I was the only one who would be interested in some more information on this subject.

Going back to the topic of the Estonian House...

I just realized today why the Estonian House is not working for us anymore.

Today, the Estonian House is a place that rents out rooms and halls. It is no longer a true community centre where Estonians go because they have something to offer the community (yes, we have the Estonian schools, kindergarten-- actually the reason why the old school house was bought in the first place...but there could be so much more!).

What do I mean? Just look at other vibrant community centres. A terrific example is the Jewish center on the conner of Bloor W and Spadina (www.milesnadaljcc.ca).
If you look at the titles of the classes and activities offered, it starts to dawn on you that these people have been motivated to offered the centre some wonderful activities from pottery, to poetry classes, to fitness programs...the list is long and the array is amazing. I want this for the Estonian community in Toronto. I don't see this happening in the present tired and dilapidated building.

I want something better for our community! Don't you?

Thanks to the individual writing under the identifiers “to Glass houses ... 24 Sep 2013 14:21” and “sorry 24 Sep 2013 15:08”.

While I appreciate the support, it wasn’t necessary. I believe others understand that [i]“In the interests of”[i] and [i]“In the interest of”[i] are synonymous phrases, viz. both are correct.

“Rahu, ainult rahu” is prolific and should consider writing under his/her own name or at least sticking to a single pseudonym. As it stands, “Rahu…” has written in this thread under seven — yes 7! — different names: [i]Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Rahu, ainult rahu (07:09), rahu (08:41), Answer this (10:40), Question (12:05), answer only begets more Q's (13:51), Thank you! (06:59), Glass houses and stones (12:48)[i]

A "busybody" meddles in the business of others.
A "vigilante" takes the law into their own hands.
We've seen both in the assault on Ehatare.
The opening salvo took the appearance of the world wide petition. My name appeared there, without my knowledge or consent. I wonder if that's also true of the people in Florida, Norway and Estonia who, no doubt, are really worried about far-off Ehatare.
A friend in Estonia signed the petition because a "busybody" told her that the former employee is the victim of a tyrant with an irrational grudge. Then she asked Veljo Tormis to sign, which he did. I wonder if Tormis has ever heard of Ehatare?
A "busybody" drove from Toronto, to our choir practice in Hamilton, to solicit signatures for the petition. Most of us went along with it because the pep-talk was pretty good and it seemed harmless. (Later, we learned that it was mostly b.s.)
A "vigilante" returned, a year later, with the plan of inciting a near-riot at the AGM. This time, the tone was fanatical and it backfired, as most of us responded with skepticism and reserve.
The "busybody" and "vigilante" has no real connection to Ehatare.
Some here, have objected to the use of "busybody" and "vigilante", but; they couldn't propose a plausible alternative. So, what can we do?

For your contribution. You are awesome!

As a non-Torontonian, and simply as an onlooker, the topic is Eesti Maja and not Ehatare. Most importantly, with the tone of this 'discussion', if you can call it that, Estonian community in Toronto will implode and no one wins.

People obviously have too much time on their hands and nothing constructive to do. get a life.

If Dr. Leesment retired, then why are others being accused of being responsible for denying Ehatare residents of estonian speaking healthcare?

Please visit Ehatare sometime!
See how easy it is to communicate with an elderly resident with some hearing loss and the beginnings of dementia.
Then try to explain how an Estonian-speaking service-provider is unnecessary.
You must lack a conscience.

I apologize to those who rightly feel irritated that the discourse about Eesti Maja has been hijacked by the Ehatare controversy. Unfortunately, the commenter signed "Peace" linked the two in a comment that was so one-sided that in all fairness it needed to be balanced out. If the ensuing discussion re Ehatare can be transferred into its own separate thread, I'm all for it.

In answer to the person who started their comment: "I don't doubt that you mean well", let me say that I almost felt the same about you until I got to the word "vigiliantes". It is you who may be misinformed including the idea that a previously satisfactory amployee can be dismissed "without cause" with no legal repercussions. Indeed, even if the employee is not fired but their duties changed in a negative way, that may be termed "constructive dismissal" and again, is a risky venture for an employer to undertake without an ironclad case as Employment Law often sides with employees.

Re your points #2 and #5 you seem unaware of pressure exerted on Ehatare residents in the opposite direction by the Board and its supporters including proxy voters who did not even attend the general meeting. How do you think elderly residents feel when the man ultimately responsible for their medical care expresses his determination to stay on as board chair? Not pressured? They felt their very lives were in his hands. This is in fact why Ontario law does not allow the dual positions to be held by one person because there is a conflict of interest. You say "the employee was replaced and Ehatare continued to function normally. The lesson here is that no one is irreplaceable." Is that not a lesson that applies equally to Dr. Leesment? If an Estonian speaking doctor was truly so critical to the residents, why did he not stay on in that paid position? Why did he choose to hang on to the volunteer supposedly unpaid position on the board? Is he not replaceable, by another board member if no one else whereas not everyone can come up with a medical degree? Most volunteer Estonian institutions are crying out for new blood. Why does the Ehatare Board, especially its chairman keep conveying the message that diaster will befall if he is replaced (and by younger working people)? This message of indispensability included denigrating well meaning people who were willing to put in countless hours of volunteer work and NOT out of revenge or to support the dismissed employee which became a side issue. The issue became a lack of confidence that the Board was doing the best job possible when people turned their attention to its various doings.

Re your point #3 I know for a fact that the proposal for mediation between board and employee was made at the first general meeting shortly after the dismissal. The advisability of avoiding court costs and bad blood was specifically mentioned. You should but may not find it in the minutes as those are Board generated. Those minutes were not made available at the next general meeting a year later. People who expressed surprise at no minutes being circulated were cavalierly instructed to go from Eesti Maja where the meeting was held to read them in the Ehatare office. In fact, Robert's rules were not followed in many other ways as well, leaving an amateurish impression. At the second meeting the Board had hired a (presumably expensive lawyer) who kept repeating words to the effect that the things people were requesting were not "strictly legally required". Lack of traditional meeting procedures and transparency tend to make people feel something is being hidden.

Re #6, calling the new candidates' qualifications flimsy is a double standard since the qualifications of many serving board members were no better except for having served on the board previously.

Finally, there has been plenty of mud flung two ways. Even your own terms "busybody" and "vigilantes" in an otherwise civil comment are regrettable.

Ironic and sad that the Memoir Writers Group who is blessed with free rooms and funding from Tartu College is disrupting an Esto House project whose objectives include achieving the same benefits for community groups operating at Esto House. No rental fees and a contemporary functional building funded by third party leases would be a huge improvement to the current Esto House where rising rents and failing infrastructure threaten viability of our community. The process underway at Esto House was approved democratically by virtually all shareholders. It is unfortunate if the Memoirs Group does not like the outcome of that vote but at least let's allow the process to run its course. Then judge the outcome. Certainly the Esto House Tulevik Committee is not out to destroy our heritage nor do they disrespect accomplishments of past generations. Esto House shareholders will be asked to approve any development proposal before contracts are signed or action taken. At that time the shareholders must determine if the new Esto House solution includes all the highly ranked needs and will operate with a viable business model, as mandated by the Esto House Town Hall meetings. If it turns out that new Esto House will not include the top community wants and needs or is not self-funding then that is the time to vote "no". Until then please be patient, respectful and stop this divisive petitioning. Similarly the Ehatare factions should take their discourse elsewhere as it is not relevant to this article or the Esto House project. Thank you.

Kui kôik need arvamuse avaldajad esineksid oma nime all, siis jääks palju inetut ütlemata ja meie ühiskond oleks sellevôrra tugevam.

For many years, Dr. Leesment's dual role at Ehatare was tolerated because everyone understood that there's a need for an Estonian speaking physician there.
The lynch mob didn't care. They have no loved ones at Ehatare. So they made a big fuss about the matter and, now, our old folks are deprived of Estonian language medical care.

Unfortunately the writer of the Article failed to acknowledge the proven fact that EM is not sustainable in it's current obsolete and inefficient form, nor offer any ideas on how to fund the idea to 'renovate, and upgrade to present standards'. Concerned members are working diligently and tirelessly on bringing an actionable, realistic and sustainable proposal to provide an EM for the next several generations. The current one will definitely sink before too long! Lets get behind an idea for a new EM and make it a beacon to revitalize our community and something we can be proud of...an idea that should have happened 20 years ago when it would have been an easier prospect...but the next best time is now.

Siit lugedes on ikka tunda: "Eestlase lemmiktoit on teine eestlane." Kahju.

I have to say, I'm unpleasantly surprised at the number of supporters for the promoter of name calling and urine basting. I didn't think there were that many Estonians with such low standards. Have they never heard of calling one's own side to order when they step over the line?

I have been a great supporter of the Toronto Estonian society for years, but since becoming mugged here for sharing my opinions I have decided to let bygones be bygones. I have no more interest in anything Estonian that takes place in Canada nor do I particularly support the sustaining of Estonian culture in Canada. The quicker someone amputates the remains of what is in a disastrous shambles as it is, the easier Canadians can find their identity amidst the strong multicultural trends that have become the standard bearer of living in Toronto.

EM belongs to its shareholders. It is well known who hold the most shares. Shareholders decision is influenced by financiers' and community's (users of the EM) input (although sometime these groups overlap). This process is well underway. If one or the other group wants to lobby for certain outcome, it is perfectly within their rights.

And I see no point bringing in any ghosts of Ehatare, completely irrelevant and self serving to certain individuals with personal vendettas.