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VanemadUuemad
Esiteks, Tõnu Naelapea, kuigi Sa eitad et võtad sõna mingi organisatsiooni nimel, on selge et võtad sõna Skaudisõprade Seltsi heaks.
Ja teiseks, kas see pole lihtsalt vingumine?
ESK juhatus otsustab kuhu raha paigutada/mahutada. Nemad vastutavad oma liikmete ees. Astu siis liikmeks. Tõepoolest, ma ei ole liige ja sestap ma ei virise ka... ära küsi, mul on piisavalt põhjust viriseda, kuid see pole minu iseloomus. Ning see EI OLEKS SÜNNIS.
Ma ei tea kas ESK toetas Jõekääru 60-dat juubelit või mitte, kas Seedrioru juubelit või mitte, aga kui ESK juhatus ei toeta Kotkajärve juubelit, siis see on NENDE OTSUS. Ära virise.
Ja teiseks, kas see pole lihtsalt vingumine?
ESK juhatus otsustab kuhu raha paigutada/mahutada. Nemad vastutavad oma liikmete ees. Astu siis liikmeks. Tõepoolest, ma ei ole liige ja sestap ma ei virise ka... ära küsi, mul on piisavalt põhjust viriseda, kuid see pole minu iseloomus. Ning see EI OLEKS SÜNNIS.
Ma ei tea kas ESK toetas Jõekääru 60-dat juubelit või mitte, kas Seedrioru juubelit või mitte, aga kui ESK juhatus ei toeta Kotkajärve juubelit, siis see on NENDE OTSUS. Ära virise.
Mina soovitan aga sünnimaa kasinus ideoloogiat järgida ja igalühel ilma Sihttkaptalita hakkama saada.
Võimalik on elu ka ilma fondide ja sihtkapitalide armuandide ja toetusteta.
Kasinam küll aga hooiski sõltumatum ja vabam.
Las Shtkapital elab rahulikult oma elu. Saame hakkama , Tõnu!
Võimalik on elu ka ilma fondide ja sihtkapitalide armuandide ja toetusteta.
Kasinam küll aga hooiski sõltumatum ja vabam.
Las Shtkapital elab rahulikult oma elu. Saame hakkama , Tõnu!
ESK got tired of seeing one of it's own executive member's (or his relatives) getting photographed so many times at a juubeli tähistamine..... it's the optics of trying to be in a certain "snack bracket".
Meie jagame, meie sööme ja ka meie lusikad! Teised olgu vait!
Maybe KJ is just too far away for any ESK executive to consider going? Hence, best not to fund KJ jubel. Seedrioru and Joekaaru are much closer and the ESK execs probably aren't as keen on Toronto Scouts & Guides as the are on the kids in their own backyard, like Hamilton, Waterloo, Guelph.
This is sooo unfare!!!! If your parents or grandparents support ESK tell them to stop. This is just to much. What a screw up ESK is!!
Yuo can always donate directly to the organization you support, you can do this even through ESK to get tax receipt.
Or put your name on ESK juhatus ballot and push out the old board
Or put your name on ESK juhatus ballot and push out the old board
ESK taotluse kolmas lk on projekti eelarve. Kuid see on excel failina ja selletõttu ehk "läheb kaotsi" taotluse koostajal.
Kudos to Tonu for putting his name out. Not sure if you are right or wrong about the particular issue, but join the club. Many organizations are unhappy, but too afraid to bite the hand that (still) feeds them, myself included.
Less money to go around, get used to it.
Less money to go around, get used to it.
Mitmed toetavad Kotkajärve ja skautide/gaidide tegevust just läbi Sihtkapitali mis tähendab, et nad toetavad ka TESS'i, kelle Kotkajärve maapinnal suur osa sellest tegevusest toimub. Meie teada ESK ei saa toetada kapitaalremonte (kuigi mõned suunavad oma pärandust ESKile selle arvamisega, et see aitaks näiteks Kotkajärvele ehitusi parandada). Kui aga ESK ei toeta isegi väärika juubeli tegevust, mis austab suurt ühiskonna vabatahtlikute koostööd, kuhu see raha siis laheb?
Kui sooviavaldus ei olnud korralikult valmistatud, ometi oleks saanud seda olukorda parandada paari telefoni kõnega. Vast saab nüüdki seda teha? Kotkajärve 60-es juubel austab ka just nende inimeste panust, kes on aastaid toetanud ESKi ja selle organisatsiooni pohimõtteid, nii majanduslikult kui ka hingeliselt oma aja ja tööga.
In other words ESK needs to support this very noteworthy function, most donators would be stunned to hear that they aren't.
We say: honour the years of selfless volunteer work by supporting this celebration!
PS: Müts maha talgulistele kes olid sel nädalavahetusel Kotkajärve metsas tööl!
Kui sooviavaldus ei olnud korralikult valmistatud, ometi oleks saanud seda olukorda parandada paari telefoni kõnega. Vast saab nüüdki seda teha? Kotkajärve 60-es juubel austab ka just nende inimeste panust, kes on aastaid toetanud ESKi ja selle organisatsiooni pohimõtteid, nii majanduslikult kui ka hingeliselt oma aja ja tööga.
In other words ESK needs to support this very noteworthy function, most donators would be stunned to hear that they aren't.
We say: honour the years of selfless volunteer work by supporting this celebration!
PS: Müts maha talgulistele kes olid sel nädalavahetusel Kotkajärve metsas tööl!
When was the last external audit performed at ESK ?
Is TM ashamed of his name since it has been deleted from the first comment that appears on this subject ? I believe that TM is the true "vinguja" even from his Montreal days .
Is TM ashamed of his name since it has been deleted from the first comment that appears on this subject ? I believe that TM is the true "vinguja" even from his Montreal days .
Kui Kotkajärve juubelil puudub eelarve siis tasuks ühte koostada. Eelarveta juubeli korraldamine ei ole soovitav. Kui eelarve on juba olemas siis asjalikum tegu oleks olnud selle Sihtkapitalile saata selle asemel et siin nuriseda ja sellega tekitada kahe toreda organisatsiooni vahel halba meelt. Annetajana on mul hea meel et ESK ei jaga "rahva raha" niisama küsimise peale hoolimatta kui väärikas raha paluja on. Eelarve kaudu näeks ESK mida rahaga on kavas teha. Muidu läheb raha niisama panga arvele.
ESK peamine eesmärk peaks ikkagi olema eesti kultuuri ja tegevuse arendamine, mitte pidude majandamine. Usun et ESK on varematel aastatel lahkelt toetanud skaudi gaidi sõite välismaa laagritesse kus kohtuvad teiste eesti noortega muudest maadest. Kiitust!
Kõige tähtsam küsimus Skaudisõpradele oleks miks mitte küsida toetust Skautide Gaidide Fondist, kus olevat ligemale pool miljonit dollarit? Vaevalt et see fond eesti koole, lasteaedu, rahvatantsijaid, laulukoore, suvekodusid ja muid väärikaid eesti tegevusi toetaks nagu seda teeb ESK!
ESK peamine eesmärk peaks ikkagi olema eesti kultuuri ja tegevuse arendamine, mitte pidude majandamine. Usun et ESK on varematel aastatel lahkelt toetanud skaudi gaidi sõite välismaa laagritesse kus kohtuvad teiste eesti noortega muudest maadest. Kiitust!
Kõige tähtsam küsimus Skaudisõpradele oleks miks mitte küsida toetust Skautide Gaidide Fondist, kus olevat ligemale pool miljonit dollarit? Vaevalt et see fond eesti koole, lasteaedu, rahvatantsijaid, laulukoore, suvekodusid ja muid väärikaid eesti tegevusi toetaks nagu seda teeb ESK!
Võtan häbi omaks; kahjuks aga Sihtkapital EI SAATNUD eelarve Exceli ankeedi TESSI juhatusele, mille taha asjad on ilmselt takerdanud. Pean ESK tegevusest lugu; kuid nendel puudub avatus.
Ma poleks muidu kirjutanud avaliku kirja. Vabandan, kui tekitan avaliku kirja esitamisega tüli, kuid ESK on autonoomselt tegutsenud õige kaua, pärast Hans Lupi ohjade üle andmist ei tea kellele. Aeg oleks. et ühiskond teaks et, miks, kuhu, ja kelle huvides? (Kes suunab on jubagi huvitavam küsimus)
Ikka lugupidamisega,
Tõnu Naelapea
Ma poleks muidu kirjutanud avaliku kirja. Vabandan, kui tekitan avaliku kirja esitamisega tüli, kuid ESK on autonoomselt tegutsenud õige kaua, pärast Hans Lupi ohjade üle andmist ei tea kellele. Aeg oleks. et ühiskond teaks et, miks, kuhu, ja kelle huvides? (Kes suunab on jubagi huvitavam küsimus)
Ikka lugupidamisega,
Tõnu Naelapea
As a scout, I am gravely disappointed and embarassed by Naelapea’s public statement in EWR. I am further disturbed by the excessive amount of misinformation that has propagated in the EWR forum surrounding this statement. It is a fact that ESK has been EXTREMELY generous in their support of various scouting and guiding activities and outings in the past number of years.
Please explain as to why you are "gravely disappointed" about my statement; a personal voicing on my part. Why do you care? How would you change things. ESK has dominated fundraising and supporting since Hans Lupp passed away. We found out then, that things were quite not the way they should have been.
Alas, too many individuals have been through the revolving doors of ESK. Among them are some who do not believe that the community is being served to the extent that it might by the laws of the land.
Then again, that is my personal opinion, based on the bias that is anti-gaid/skaut evinced by not only ESK but other orgs....
Until proven otherwise...
With respect,
Tõnu Naelapea,
eestlane at large.
Alas, too many individuals have been through the revolving doors of ESK. Among them are some who do not believe that the community is being served to the extent that it might by the laws of the land.
Then again, that is my personal opinion, based on the bias that is anti-gaid/skaut evinced by not only ESK but other orgs....
Until proven otherwise...
With respect,
Tõnu Naelapea,
eestlane at large.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tõnu Naelapea (16:57)
Dear Tõnu,
Your comments have made me not want to participate in the Estonian community.
Your comments have made me not want to participate in the Estonian community.
Ma lähen inglise keelele üle, sest paistab et mõnedel kommenteerijatel oleks see lihtsalt mugavam.
I started this thread of comments suggesting that Tõnu Naelapea’s Open Letter was just whining. I was severely trounced by the readers: [i]“Thumbs down”[i] out numbered [i]“Thumbs up”[i] by a WIDE margin. I also received some personal e-mails.
I still am not certain that I was wrong to call the Open Letter whining. But I digress…
The comments have taken an ugly turn. ESK has taken a public trouncing, perhaps worse than I have. Naelapea’s subsequent comments comprise casting some aspersions on previous ESK directors as well as the current board… bad idea.
I am here neither to defend the current ESK board nor to unconstructively criticise it.
That being said [i](and I know I’m putting myself in the cross fire: both sides will denounce me and I will be fatally wounded – sadly, to everyone’s delight)[i]
1. TESS erred (perhaps innocently) by not providing a budget along with their funding application.
2. ESK should have had a pre-screening process in place to tell any applicant whether something crucial was missing before the application went to the Board for a decision: ESK does have paid staff in place after all.
So that’s it. You’re all invited to my wake… but no bickering will be allowed there.
I started this thread of comments suggesting that Tõnu Naelapea’s Open Letter was just whining. I was severely trounced by the readers: [i]“Thumbs down”[i] out numbered [i]“Thumbs up”[i] by a WIDE margin. I also received some personal e-mails.
I still am not certain that I was wrong to call the Open Letter whining. But I digress…
The comments have taken an ugly turn. ESK has taken a public trouncing, perhaps worse than I have. Naelapea’s subsequent comments comprise casting some aspersions on previous ESK directors as well as the current board… bad idea.
I am here neither to defend the current ESK board nor to unconstructively criticise it.
That being said [i](and I know I’m putting myself in the cross fire: both sides will denounce me and I will be fatally wounded – sadly, to everyone’s delight)[i]
1. TESS erred (perhaps innocently) by not providing a budget along with their funding application.
2. ESK should have had a pre-screening process in place to tell any applicant whether something crucial was missing before the application went to the Board for a decision: ESK does have paid staff in place after all.
So that’s it. You’re all invited to my wake… but no bickering will be allowed there.
As someqone who has filled out an application for funding from ESK, I know for a fact that on page 2 of the form it clearly states to fill out page 3 Budget template. If the TESS rep. had bothered to read the form more carefully and if the excel sheet was not provided by ESK, then the logical thing would have been to ask the ESK office for one. The scholarship applicants are instructed that they are responsible for making sure the ESK gets all the required paperwork, and these are kids, then adults should surely be responsible of the same. How many people work at the ESK office? One, maybe two people. How is this one person supposed to babysit every single application when the office gets 20+ requests, including scholarships? If you want the money, do the work, carefully.
And lastly, does the TESS juhatus donate to ESK and ask to direct their money to TESS???
Jōekääru does, Esto schools do etc.
It's very convenient to complain, but the money has to come from somewhere first. I have read in Eesti Elu that donations are down, so be proactive and give to your org either through ESK or direclty. It takes teamwork and caring.
I donate every month and have requested that my money got to my favourite summer camp. It's not a lot of money, but at least I give something because I care. DO YOU?
And lastly, does the TESS juhatus donate to ESK and ask to direct their money to TESS???
Jōekääru does, Esto schools do etc.
It's very convenient to complain, but the money has to come from somewhere first. I have read in Eesti Elu that donations are down, so be proactive and give to your org either through ESK or direclty. It takes teamwork and caring.
I donate every month and have requested that my money got to my favourite summer camp. It's not a lot of money, but at least I give something because I care. DO YOU?
What's with everyone hiding behind anonymity?
In all fairness, let's not forget that donations of time are precious too. Our very rich and diverse community here in Canada is built up on a combination of donations of incredible passion, time and money. TESS executive members and members of organizations such as ESK and also all our various camp and activity organizers donate countless hours, sometimes even at the expense of their professional wage earning time. With all due respect every hour is also a precious gift. I humbly submit that every donation has a value and to remember that people do choose to give in whatever way they can.
In all fairness, let's not forget that donations of time are precious too. Our very rich and diverse community here in Canada is built up on a combination of donations of incredible passion, time and money. TESS executive members and members of organizations such as ESK and also all our various camp and activity organizers donate countless hours, sometimes even at the expense of their professional wage earning time. With all due respect every hour is also a precious gift. I humbly submit that every donation has a value and to remember that people do choose to give in whatever way they can.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Robert Hiis ja Viive Tork-Hiis (07:25)
I choose to stay anonymous this time because my name will show bias towards org's I love and I want to remain neutral and on the topic at hand. That said, I am biased toward Kotkajärve too. I love Kotkajärve and believe that it deserves support, both monetary and manpower. But the issue here is shoddy paperwork and the blame thrown at Sihtkapital. What upsets me most, is that this blame will go toward the wonderful Sihtkapital administrator who sends out the paperwork. I cannot believe that she would not help TESS in any way possible since she is a KJ person herself. If by any chance the excel document was not included to TESS (one person can only do so much), then I must reiterate: on page 2 of the application form it says in black and white to fill out page 3. Again, if it is not clear what it means, one can pick up the phone and call Sihtkapital office where the administrator (who often goes well beyond her duty to help ANYONE who asks for help) could have easily explained and sent out the document to be filled. She has helped the org I volunteer with numerous times with said papers.
So rather than lay blame, think for alternatives. There are many people out here who love KJ. If TESS asked them each to pitch in as little as $10, the money for KJ 60th would be collected in no time, and they could get more than what was asked from ESK.
PS! Thank you to the ESK admin for her great work!
So rather than lay blame, think for alternatives. There are many people out here who love KJ. If TESS asked them each to pitch in as little as $10, the money for KJ 60th would be collected in no time, and they could get more than what was asked from ESK.
PS! Thank you to the ESK admin for her great work!
Oh gosh….. Oh my…..Oh dear! Mari knows all about ESK forms, knows that ESK processes 20 applications a month and frowns at people who don’t give to ESK. She thinks ESK hired help would be over loaded if they needed to count the number of pages every applicant hands in and tell the applicant he is missing a page. Imagine that!! Oh my! Office processes less than one application a day and grumble about the work load!!! Methinks Mari is an ESK insider. Who oh who can she be???
If my experience with filling out the forms for many years and making some educated guesses qualifies me to work at ESK, maybe I should apply when they're hiring.
Actually, no thanks, I have a job already :)
Actually, no thanks, I have a job already :)
Aitünks kommenteerijatele...
Paneksime prundi? Avalikuse ees on tõsine mure, laseme neil lahendada.
Ette aitâh,
Tõnu
Paneksime prundi? Avalikuse ees on tõsine mure, laseme neil lahendada.
Ette aitâh,
Tõnu
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tõnu Naelapea (16:57), Tõnu Naelapea (19:04)
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