Tearing Jõekääru to pieces
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Perifeerialt21 Aug 2009 11:48
Wow, a citizen of Jõekääru - that's cool. How can I get one of those passports :) Not surprising that the author is not authorized to speak on behalf of the board.

Assuming that the author's stats are correct, then if everyone pays, $12,800 is reliably available annually for admin fees and to maintain the 144 acres. That's $88 per acre, a laughably small amount - insurance, landscaping, snowplowing, taxes. Kudos to those in charge for volunteering your time and pinching pennies for this long - I hope you find the organizational relief that makes the most sense.
Tiit21 Aug 2009 16:49
The camp and ESHA, I'm certain, split the costs equally. Property taxes pay for the snow plowing, limited road maintenance, garbage pickup, etc.
mare22 Aug 2009 22:57
possibly you can stop snowploughing or landscaping those extra acres..they still exist as a buffer keeping nature for nature lovers.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: mare (22:54)
questions21 Aug 2009 18:50
Do the board members of ESHA agree as to what the original purpose of the lands were for? It sounds like they have mentioned it was to be for Estonian youth. Once this is clear, it will be easier to follow out a mandate.

Or is there is a division on the agreement as to what the original purpose was for?

What kind of assurance is their currently in place to protect the best interests of ESHA should the residents be composed of a non-Estonian majority?
kalevi23 Aug 2009 10:43
I think it says in ESHA's constitution that the lands, if they are ever sold, then the proceeds go to an Estonian charity. As far as I've heard, that part is not in dispute.
questions23 Aug 2009 15:49
Kudos to ESHA and JSS, for dealing with this matter now. And Tanner for shedding viewpoint from a resident's perspective.

Regarding the commissioned report that stated "a burden"...I believe what the report meant was that legally and administratively the lands are a burden, which I agree with after reading this article. Of course the lands themselves are not the burden for the residents!

If the non-Estonian residents have warned that they will leave should ESHA transfer the lands to an auxilliary organization, and that they "like things the way they are" then it sounds like they have been content with their situation and with their "2nd class status". The board members who think it's shameful that the non-estonian residents are treated as second class, are perhaps over-worrying. It sounds like these are reasonable people who are very happy with their arrangement.

Also, selling a portion of some of the land by the road, could make sense if there is worry that in the future, the lands would be sold for personal profit. After the lawyer's fees, and land transfer taxes, etc. be paid out a portion of the monies be liquidated by donation to Estonian youth organization (or Estonian charity) to satisfy the constitutions bylaws.
mare22 Aug 2009 22:54
Good article. Seems to be objective and truthful. BUT WHY THE ANONYMITY? That is not acceptable in any respectable newspaper or magazine, on-line or print. Not good editorial policy. This is not a Communist society and therefore we are not punished for honestly stated opinions.
Peter23 Aug 2009 22:45
As much as I admire Paavo Loosberg for all he has done for our community, I strongly disagree with his urging that the meeting be conducted in English. Jõekääru is a true Little Estonia and our community should do everything possible to maintain its Estonian character. Non-Estonians are not treated as second class citizens since they made the decision to buy land in this beautiful area and there is always the option for them to learn to speak Estonian if they truly want to be part of this community.
Robert24 Aug 2009 08:04
If ESHA owns 50% of the parklands now, and it continues to hold that 50%interest in the proposed auxiliary organization then there is no need for the auxiliary organization, it will serve only to create more bureaucracy. Better to have two organizations managing Joekaaru than three.
Urmas24 Aug 2009 08:41
I spoke with Mr. Tanner after the May agm and that was his concern, that in the proposed auxiliary organization ESHA would hold a lesser interest in the parklands than it does now, meaning land could be sold even if Joekaaru property owners were opposed to such a sale. He said to me that his goal was to protect the parklands for both property owners and the camp. Kudos to Mr. Tanner!
Oh stop it.26 Aug 2009 06:32
Unless the resident/owner has a right to the "parklands" registered on title (i.e. deed to the property he or she owns), there is no right, squatters rights aside. Good idea to soberly sort through what is truly at stake - it is very much an internal matter for ESHA and the yappy puppies on the sidelines would do well to learn to sit and stay. Who knows, if they're very good and patient, they may get a treat after all.
Jaak26 Aug 2009 09:01
Most of ESHA's directors and two of its trustees are not original property owners, thus their deeds will not specify what their rights or priveleges are. But since the beginng in 1961, if you bought a property in Joekaaru and were Estonian then it was accepted, if you pay your dues, that you are an ESHA member with full voting rights. But if you bought property at Joekaaru and were not Estonian, then too bad, you are not welcome to join, even if you pay the dues. Is that discriminatory?
cont'd26 Aug 2009 13:12
The deed travels with the land, not with the owner. The deed will specify what rights are attendant with the property purchased. None of the deeds grant individual property owners rights of any kind over the "parklands" - those "parklands" are owned by a group of people. Picture it as a Venn diagram. Two circles that intersect. One circle is ESHA members ("parkland" owner) and the other is JK property owners. The two have a common population. But let me ask, by what right does someone who is in one circle but not in the intersection of the two circles cry foul? Is it discriminatory that a group of people got together and obtained title to land that happens to be adjacent to the land of those in one Venn circle? Think it through if you can through the din that some commentators here are making, stamping their feet, cheeks glistening with tantrum tears. Just because you bought land at Jõekääru does not give you the right to the "parklands". Ownership of the "parklands" is someone else's - an association to which you either a) belong, or b) don't belong, regardless of your ethnicity. Period.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Perifeerialt (11:48), Bolete (09:55)
eevi novek24 Aug 2009 16:23
Questions relating to ESHA and it's Jõekääru properties are internal matters, dealt with by the ESHA Board and the members of ESHA.
It was decided at the annual meeting in May that the Board arrange a workshop/information meeting; this will take place on Sept. 27th, 2009.
At that time we will be able to correct misinformation and misleading claims as well as discuss the current status and future options/recommendations in a constructive manner.
It is to be noted that the Board is working strictly in adherance to the Constitution, keeping in mind the directives established by those men & women who have left us this legacy.
Hope to see all ESHA members on Sept. 27th.
On behalf of the ESHA Board
Eevi Novek, President
Tuula25 Aug 2009 07:51
Is that the ESHA Constitution or the Canadian Constitution? Because the Canadian one recognizes everyone as equal and I wonder if that's the same within ESHA.
Respectully01 Sep 2009 08:17
Respectfully I submit to Mrs. Novek that it is impossible for ESHA to be "working strictly in adherance to the Constitution" when two families dominate the board, the Noveks and Kaljurands. That makes four board members from two properties. That is hardly in keeping "strictly" with the spirit of " the directives established by those men & women who have left us this legacy."
eevi novek03 Sep 2009 08:17
To correct & clarify the claim made by the above writer.
Only one of each of the mentioned families are Board members, the other two are Trustee and "Kandidaat" respectively. The Trustees and "Kadidaat's" have no voting rights at Board meetings.
Respectfully06 Sep 2009 13:21
Four board members from two properties gives the appearance of conflict, and raises the spectre of conflict. It is a conflict by default, because if any director other than Mr. kaljurand steps down, then Mrs. Kaljurand takes the place of that member, thus creating a conflict with two directors from one property sitting at the board.

Four members from two Joekaaru properties does not go toward reflecting the diversity of opinions from the ESHA membership. Eevi is not likely to disagree with her husband, nor can we expect Tiiu Kaljurand to disagree with her husband.

Thank you Eric Tanner for the well written article and for speaking out in the BEST interests of Joekaaru property owners.
Cheers!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Respectully (08:17)
Bolete25 Aug 2009 09:55
It's interesting to note the official tone of ESHA - don't interfere with our internal affairs - a standard reply by undemocratic nations to allegations of human rights violations...

ESHA is essentially a private club, membership by invitation only. However,
members whose command of Estonian is limited or nonexistent are disenfranchised, not by the ESHA constitution, but instead by how the organization operates, based on the principle of "security" through linguistic obscurity.

This status of having paid membership fees yet not having a voice is troubling, and deserves open discussion.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Perifeerialt (11:48)
an outsider25 Aug 2009 11:11
As an outsider, I didn't receive this tone from ESHA's note. In fact, I received it very well and appreciated the tone and professionalism.

Also, you're comparing this situation of an administrative dilemma occuring in a democratic country to human rights violations in the world? That is a distateful nod to victims of true undemocratic unjustices. This is nothing like that. Keep a level head. You should rescind that statement.

It is not an open discussion, as this is a private club and between the residents and members of ESHA to deal with.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: questions (18:50)
kärbes seinal25 Aug 2009 11:38
Keerutajad. ...tuurid maha palun ;)
Gert25 Aug 2009 17:15
It's the Estonian Summer Home Association. Move back to Oshawa if you don't like it.
Virpu25 Aug 2009 17:24
Don't get hung up on the name of the association. Otherwise that word "summer" might come to haunt you and you might have to close it down in the Winter like the finns accross the river have to!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tiina (17:15)
Tiina25 Aug 2009 17:15
I have spent almost every weekend of my youth in Joekaaru. I loved walking the fields, forests and streams. This is what made going to the cottage specia! It saddens me that trustees for the "home owners" of the association want to encourage home owners to "give up" their rights to the lands. The parklands is what makes Joekaaru special... they give value to purchasing land there. What the board should perhaps be focusing on is "what else can we do to make Joekaaru more wonderful - creating excitment to own land there."

I wonder if any of you have questioned WHY are non-Estonians purchasing land and Estonians are not! Perhaps instead of hiring lawyers to figure out a way to take land away from the property owners you spent it marketing Joekaaru to the target market you seem to have - specifically Estonians.

Either way, I believe board members should be representing the association members - no matter if they don't speak Estonian - they are your neighbours!

And thank you Paavo for asking the meetings to be run in English. My Estonian is not very good. My husband and children don't speak Estonian. It would be sad if my family with Estonian heritage would be deemed "undesireable" at meetings. Estonians have a rich heritage that my children can learn about and should be exposed to... but it won't happen if people like me and my children are not accepted.
Peter26 Aug 2009 07:41
Tiina, you are contradicting yourself. You write about wanting to expose your children to their Estonian heritage but at the same time, you admit that you have not even bothered to teach them Estonian. I really don't understand people like you who make a decision to cut their children off from their culture and raise them as anglos and then complain about others who are still loyal to their heritage.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Peter (22:45)
tiina26 Aug 2009 09:42
Thanks for your lack of insight. If you notice, I mentioned that my command of Estonian is lacking, (perhaps we can point a finger at my parents if you need to point) Thus, I was not able to teach my kids, Joekaaru camp does not want my non-estonian speaking kids so that option is not available... and finally you presume I live close to an Estonian community where I could send them to estonian school or folk dancing or whatever... Not everyone is close to Toronto and can benefit from the cultural exposure... but I am telling you that it would be wonderful to accept my children even though they are lacking and their parents are not loyal (why punish the kids if you blame the parents?)- I am reaching out and saying this might be a good thing and your comment says... since I am a lousy mother and I am not LOYAL since I did not teach my kids to speak Estonian then YOU don't want them to participate at all... let them drop off from the face of the Estonian Circle.

It is precisely these children you SHOULD accept if you want the Estonian Culture to florish.

We, the parents, take turns travelling to our ethnic homelands with our kids. It is there that they are accepted and encouraged to use phrases and learn about their culture. That is how you get some lost sheep back into the fold... not by excluding them but by including them.

A child who finds Estonian events fun will want to participate more and as they get older might on their own purse the language if there is access... I have been led to understand... that Joekaaru camp has higher attendance in the week they TOLERATE non-Estonian speaking kids... which speaks volumes on how they might not lose money if they were not so exclusionary. And if more Estonian events encouraged non-Estonian speakers you might have a more vibrant society.

Remember when the Esto house parties could attract so many people you needed all three halls to contain them... those days are past. Realize that and keep the culture going and try and ATTRACT the people you are excluding back into the Estonian society and you might be surprised how many might start to pickup the language.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tiina (17:15), Virpu (17:24)
Anon26 Aug 2009 10:43
In 20 or 30 years, what will will our estonian society in Toronto look like ? Lets no kid ourselves , most of us are already Sunday Estonians.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: kärbes seinal (11:38)
Silvi V.26 Aug 2009 11:59
"Joekaaru camp does not want my non-estonian speaking kids so that option is not available"

Tiina, you don't mention the ages of your children, but if they are the right age for camp, then they ARE welcome to attend! Jõekääru had a great Esto Immersion program this past summer - longer than other years. (I believe it was 3 out of the 4 weeks of camp - perhaps a JK juhatuseliige can clarify) I read a report on the language program offered there and it was fantastic!!
The community IS reaching out to these kids and families and we welcome you "back to the fold".
Esto school - all levels, have classes for those who have little or no Estonian language skills if you are able to drive to Toronto. There have been children who attend from as far away as Cambridge, Oshawa, Pickering, Uxbridge, Barrie, Hamilton, ... Where there's a will, there's a way.
Maxim26 Aug 2009 12:58
It's time to roll with the punches, and understand, that an Estonian's primary duty is to maintain one's Estonian identity. Once this is lost, then all else will go out with the little bath water there is left. The discrimination against non-Estonians is perfectly legitimate, given the importance of keeping the culture up where it belongs. Caving into English-speakers is the same deal as Estonians who feel they need to cave into whoever doesn't understand their language. To hell with everyone else. Let's fight this fight for Estonia's sake, and not for the sake of some stupid and utterly useless multicultural program that is nothing more or less than what Stalin or Mao wanted to give birth to in their respective homelands. The language is too important for the likes of Loosberg and anyone else to just let bygones be bygones. This is a matter of life and death. And death must be seen not in us, but in the things that we have fought against for so long and yet losing a grip on this late in the day.
Tiina26 Aug 2009 14:45
Thank you Silvi ... I did not realize. I must say your words were informative and kind. We need more people like you.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tiina (17:15), Virpu (17:24), tiina (09:42)
Silvi26 Aug 2009 15:19
Eesti Elu is doing a fantastic job at keeping the community informed of what's going on. (schools, camps, guides/scouts, churches, events...)
In addition to checking out Eesti.ca on a regular basis, I suggest asking to be added to the ESK/EFC newsletter list:
The Estonian community IS changing. It's not status quo anymore and for those who have been on the outside for a while, it's worth a revisit.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Silvi V. (11:59)
Eva26 Aug 2009 15:30
I was a volunteer at the camp about 10 years ago or so when it catered to
only those children that spoke Estonian, a total of about 30 campers for the whole summer. At that time Mr. Tanner wrote in both Estonian papers, Meie Elu and Vaba Estlane, about how the camp was doomed for failure if it did not begin including all Estonian children, whether they spoke the language or not. I remember it created quite the stir, and I heard some unkind words spoken of Mr. Tanner. I also did not agree with him, but I think now the camp is better for the changes Mr. Tanner was partly instrumental in bringing about. I thought someone should mention this fact.
m27 Aug 2009 12:59
Please do not come here to present yourself as some sort of pathetic victim. If Estonian culture were important to you, you would take the time to teach your children Estonian, it's history and culture. It's not easy, but culture is not served as simply as a McDonald's Happy Meal: It takes time and effort to do it.
Parents constantly whine about some sport or other extra curricular activity taking up too much time, or that it takes too long to drive to the Esto house etc. But if Estonian culture and heritage were important to you, it would trump the Karate lessons or figure skating.
by presenting yourslef as a victim, you are accusing those of us who do take the time and do find our heritage important of imposing on your rights in this community. The truth is, that we've never told you not to gift your children their cultural heritage: that's your fault and no one elses.
So when those of us, who have undertaken the time and effort to teach our children, want to send our kids to a camp or organization that helps to reinforce or support our efforts at home, we should be allowed to do so. It's not snobbery, it's just a matter of what's important to us. If it's inconvenient for you - too bad. I won't be shedding any tears for your lack of effort.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Gert (17:15)
Silvi27 Aug 2009 14:45
I used to think like you Gert, that it would somehow take away from my children if there were non-Estonian speakers at the camp.

I did a darned good job teaching my kids Estonian (If I do say so myself) and nothing will take that away! They did not learn the language at camp and would not have lost it, had there been youngsters there who had not yet learned Estonian.

I have come around and see that it only enriches us as a community to embrace EVERY member!

It is attitudes like yours that drive people away from our community.
I'm sad for you for your negativity. I see great hope for the future.

As a previous commenter said, Thank you Erik Tanner for being persistent!
Inimene õpib nii kaua kui elab!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Silvi V. (11:59), Silvi (15:19)
O.K.27 Aug 2009 15:08
With all due respect - and I mean that - what future does our community here have if our children are unable to speak the language, do not understand our history, think that the culture is "foreign" and are unable to identify Tartu on a map? There's much, much more to our Estonian identity than just having a saun, drinking Saku beer and travelling to Estonia.
Personally, I think it's rather negative to marginalize those of us who put forth the effort to sustain our culture. IF some of us, including you, didn't do that, we wouldn't have anything here other than a loose group of people with some loose genetic bond. And that, unfortunately, does not constitute any sort of "community" - they're neighbours or colleagues at best. And I have enough of those - thank you. Wich brings us nicely back to the issue at hand!
Maxim27 Aug 2009 04:22
It's good to see that Silvi and others are so patriotic in their belief in the survival on the Estonian language in Canada. Judging from the Kotkajärve camps of this year, it seems clear, that a tough but worthwhile line has been drawn in favour of correspondence at these camps being at maintained at least 50% of the time in Estonian. It is very important to try to maintain this balance, and then to work on maintaining friendships and common Estonian interests at other times of the year. Hopefully all this accountability in favour of language and culture will go far in developing a healthy but firmly committed young Estonian community who is not afraid of conversing in Estonian.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Maxim (12:58)
sofia27 Aug 2009 22:25
It's amazing how beautiful the language is and how people from around the world have flocked to the country to learn about our culture and our language!

Many of Estonia's Russians have now learned Estonian and a few told me this last July with smiles about how they were still learning Estonian (as I was too). They really like Estonia, and learning Estonian. I've met Japanese and East Indians who speak fluent Estonian. I also know of Brazilians who are in Estonia learning to speak the language. Last fall when I was in Estonia and waiting for a colleague at my hotel, I was surprised to see and hear a black rapper speaking fluent Estonian with the hotel manager. I'm in my mid 30's and consider myself pretty hip, but even this I admit, threw me for a tiny bit of a loop.

If there is anything I learned at this last summer's Uheshingamine...and from Eesti Eestlased....is that we are all Estonians and it's not for us to compare one estonian child who doesn't know his a, b, ja d's to another, who may have been exposed to more opportunity. It is no fault of the child and no fault of the parent. It is the fault of a World War that separated a peoples. Let's not let Stalin win....That is the past, it's over.

Hopefully if the Childrens Camp (or any Estonian organization) were to read this post....and read how Estonia has made resources available to non-Estonians to learn Estonian culture and language than perhaps they would be willing to make changes to give more opportunity for it's Estonians who have not yet learn the language.

Like Silvi says, there IS much hope and optimism. I feel this strongly. The more we criticize, the less we move forward. We have work that needs to be done! Make the commitment and LEARN ESTONIAN!!! Please, someone, let me know how I may learn Estonian, if I am not situated in Toronto or near Toronto. I have heard of on-line courses through Skype somewhere. Let's start spreading the word. Let's ask the Estonian Foundation of Canada for funding, for assistance. Let's make this a group effort to learn the language at least one level better than we already have, this winter. And to those who already know the language...for goodness sakes help teach and support your fellow Estonians. Estonians are great teachers when they want to be!
Maxim28 Aug 2009 03:10
All of what you say is true, Sofia. I would add only this much. 1) That Estonians tend to overinflate their own importance, and want the world to notice them desperately, which sometimes makes many of them turn into "tallalakkujad". 2) Estonia is too small to lose members altogether to the broader Canadian community. We need people who are unfledgingly in favour of maintaining Estonian identity. This means, of course, that most people aren't, so we have to find a middle path for the rest to tread. Many have forfeited their ancestral rights by forgetting the language and customs of their forefathers, and instead we have the ironical situation that people from completely different backgrounds are learning and respecting Estonian culture, and by contrast not one iota will move young Estonian people abroad to work towards creating different attitudes in favour of maintaning Estonian culture for themselves. 3) That many Russians in Estonia are now part of the Estonian community should make a lot of us think-how is it that Estonia can create a whole new generation of people willing to become committed to Estonia, and yet other people elsewhere of Estonian extraction give up all meaningful allegiance to the Estonian community without batting an eyelid? The whole question of being Estonian by blood-right alone is an issue that will become increasingly important, as the identity question will tear deep into the fabric of people who in their hearts have already said goodbye to the Estonian community, yet in their heart of hearts think misleadingly, they are as much Estonian in spite of not having any of the known qualities and values that make us distinct as a European race. Someday the brunt of this question will be broken once and for all.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Maxim (12:58), Maxim (04:22)
to sofia28 Aug 2009 11:52
So, Estonia is full of Japanese, East Indians, Brazilians and Black Rappers just rappin' away in mellifluous Estonian. That is nothing short of a cause for a great celebration.
Since you know so much 'sofia', perhaps you can explain a mystery -- our mutual acquaintance, Maxim, moved from Toronto to Estonia when it was still a part of the USSR; yet, after all these years, he can't speak Estonian any better than the pals that he left behind at Eesti Maja in Toronto. What's he lacking that all those Japs, Black rappers and others have?

BTW, 'sofia' is a pen-name that Maxim uses on occasion. To avoid confusion, you might consider changing yours.
sofia28 Aug 2009 12:04
Hi Maxim, yes, it was all true!

The world is changing! Just like it always has.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: sofia (22:25)
Maxim29 Aug 2009 03:01
Sofia, a lot of things are going to change in the coming years both within the Estonian community in Canada, as well as Estonia itself. The govt is bleeding beyond repair in the current economic decline, and valuable Estonians by the tens of thousands have now left Estonia in pursuit of better living conditions. As a result, what is going to happen is that the govt will be forced to accept a larger than expected immigration quota, which will add further pressure towards loosening controls on language exams, living permits and other pressing matters. This fall will indicate the extent of the economic downturn in all domains of life, and the picture does not look rosy at all. That there are going to be a lot more people of different racial backgrounds roaming Tallinn's streets will be a credit to our future, because these will be our bottomline taxpayers and holders of Estonian passports, as well as bearers of our national symbols.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Maxim (12:58), Maxim (04:22), Maxim (03:10)
Peter29 Aug 2009 07:06
Maxim, I think you are overy pessimistic. Don't forget that many people are also returning home to Estonia because there are no more jobs in many of the countries that they moved to. Britain, for example, is on the verge of total economic collapse and many people are leaving that country and returning home.
I alsö think that it is just a matter of time before immigration is stopped to Europe as all but the most hopless liberals realize what a mistake this policy has been. The election of Nick Griffin to the European Parliament,by UK voters was a huge shock to leftists because he favours not only the end of immigration but a government run repatriation program as well.
You must also remember that if a worst case scenerio happens and jobless immigrants in bankrupt Western Europe take over and Communist, Islamist or other radical governments take power, Estonia and other Eastern European governments, including Russia, will face a totally different challenge, keeping other Europeans out who may try to escape their strife-torn and futureless homelands for the East.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Peter (22:45), Peter (07:41), Peter (15:57)
Maxim29 Aug 2009 09:45
Some good points here, Peter. Many thanks indeed! If things go the way you imagine, it very well could mean the sort of outcome to which you allude. I hadn't anticipated on things being the way you describe them in your post, but thanks for the additional info. Max.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Maxim (12:58), Maxim (04:22), Maxim (03:10), Maxim (03:01)
Peter28 Aug 2009 15:57
There was a lot of debating on this subject a few years ago and I am surprised by how many patriotic Estonians have finally realized how we should not be changing our organizations just to cater to those who have decided not to pass on the language to their children and then accuse those who have kept the faith of discriminationg against them. There are so many English-speaking organizations on Ontario and they can have their pick but, no, they have to return to the churches, summer camps and other organizations they once were part of and change them from Estonian to English.
I remember when I was attending confirmation classes in an "Estonian" church we had a small group of leerilapsed who had 1 Estonian parent and demanded that they must be allowed to be confirmed in this church. Of course, all the classes were conducted in English, in spite of the protests of the students, myself included. I thought to myself, what a waste of time taking the bus all the way to this church when I could be confirmed at the local Anglican church that is within walking distance of my house if I wanted confirmation classes in English. I am not surprised that almost none of the people I attended these classes with ever shows up at this church for services, except on Christmas Eve.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Peter (22:45), Peter (07:41)
Silvi28 Aug 2009 21:33
I am fortunate enough to be an active ... very active part of our community, specifilcally... I've been working with the children and young people in the community for most of my life. I have, as I mentioned earlier, changed my tune as far as the strict language requirements. What changed my mind was witnessing, first hand, the enthusiasm that the young ESTONIANS, who, for whatever reason, had not previously spoken the language, showed for learning the language, history and all things Estonian.
It would be a great disservice to our community to exclude them! They are wonderful additions to our fold.
Even saying this sounds elitist and snobby to me!!! (we allow them to join us)
The Estonian government recognizes as citizens, the descendants of Estonian citizens. Our commitment should be to be an extension of that and help anyone who feels a connection to their roots to understand their history and culture and language.
Sofia, there are resources available online. Contact me
The Estonian government has been incredibly supportive of our communities outside of Estonia!!!
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Teet Kalmus: Ukraina on hakanud andma signaale rahu sõlmimiseks ning on nõus selle nimel tegema järeleandmisi (9)
27 Oct 2024 16:09
Clocks go back one hour in Estonia this Sunday, North America follows next week
27 Oct 2024 08:33
Võõrsil ja kodus. Roosed - ERR
25 Oct 2024 07:03
Teet Kalmus: Putinit ei huvita vaherahu enne, kui on taastatud kontrolli Kurski oblasti üle (11)
24 Oct 2024 20:47
At the Latvian Centre - 13.00 October 31: The Great Escape of 1944
24 Oct 2024 17:33
Eestlaste kaardimaksed välismaal kasvasid aastatagusega võrreldes ligi 5% (1)
24 Oct 2024 17:21
Australian billionaire Tim Heath fights off alleged abductors in Estonia
24 Oct 2024 16:51
To All Members of St. Peter’s Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church of Toronto
24 Oct 2024 16:51
NOORTE NURK: Tagurpidi lood
24 Oct 2024 16:22
Tulevased Ehatare Foundation’i programmid üksilduse vastu võitlemiseks
24 Oct 2024 16:18
Sõnamängu-kohvikus pandi pead tööle
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