Madison Project “Due Diligence” Part 3 – School Season Neighbours
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Karl Otsa07 Jul 2017 18:30
By chance are you suggesting that EKL et al needs to go so that the project to progress?
Karl Otsa08 Jul 2017 21:59
Hr. Allan Meiusi,

Which Estonian korporatsioon (selts) do you belong to?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30)
Allan Meiusi09 Jul 2017 14:21
I don't belong to one. What's the relevance? The subject matter is about the conduct of students residing at frat houses associated with the University of Toronto. The Councillor's petition to his colleagues in city council and the constituent's letter to the mayor have nothing to do with Estonian frats/ korps. This is only in regard to what is happening in neighboring residences that are in close proximity to the proposed location for the new cultural centre.
Karl Otsa09 Jul 2017 12:43
Why do I get 2 thumbs down for asking which Korp! Hr. Meiusi belongs to?

What's the reasoning?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30), Karl Otsa (21:59)
Karl Otsa10 Jul 2017 17:25
Hr. Meiusi,

No I really don't think you understand the relevance. But you seem to have no problem smearing or insinuating Estonian fraternities with all the bad apples of the North American variety.

Yes there are current crime concerns, as there in any large metropolitan city in the world. Show me a similar sized city that has a crime rate LOWER than Toronto. As for the Broadview location

http://www.torontosun.com/2015...

NY Eesti Maja was bought at a most fortuitous time for a mere pittance of what the location is now worth. Why are YOU so closed minded to affording Toronto Estonians the same opportunity.

Limited adjacent parking is part of living in a large metropolis. I don't know if you've been to NYC Eesti Maja but there has NEVER been adjacent parking. If anything people don't drive to NYC Eesti Maja because of the traffic. But if that too is the problem why are the number of participants down at Chicago, Long Island or Lakewood facilities? What about JK, KJ or Seedrioru? The drives to ALL of these locations are pretty much the same (they haven't moved in over 60+ years) and from going to all of these Ontario locations in the last decades there is LOTS of parking.

When the current Toronto Eesti Maja was purchased I'm sure there was a lot of naysayers as well. How many didn't have cars and had to take the TTC? What about the time it took to get from North York or Keele to Broadview & Danforth? (and then back home) or the number of transfers that were required back then. Heck when the lasketiir opened how many people recall transporting their relvad on the TTC? Try doing that now.

Just curious, when you did your roving reporter / man on the street interview with "Chris Williams, a local resident and citizen representative" did you ask him about the casino event armed robberies or about the twice weekly events up in the pööning?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30), Karl Otsa (21:59), Karl Otsa (12:43)
Rahamees10 Jul 2017 21:54
Karl, you make no sense whatsoever here. Meiusi in no way suggests anything related to eesti korporatsioonid.

Any all other points you are trying to make are complete nonsense.
lugeja11 Jul 2017 06:03
You asked which korporatsioon Mr. Meiusi belongs to and even though that is a personal question that doesn't seem to have any relevance to the matter at hand, he answered you. He also asked a simple question of you that seems fair - what's the relevance? Now you give the condescending non-answer "No I really don't think you understand the relevance".

A few things seem clear here:

1 - your question was inappropriate and indeed has no relevance

2 - you have an "anti-Meiusi" agenda

Mr. Meiusi is providing information which I'm sure many of us appreciate having. I can only hope that your continued attempts to discredit him won't stop him from keeping us informed.
Reader11 Jul 2017 08:28
A. Meiusi has provided many deep insights. I for one was not aware that there is university housing near the site - who is responsible for allowing this to take place? Have the people behind these schemes been identified? I wish he would also do some investigative journalism about the number of seniors residences in the area. I have heard that there are quite a number and am concerned that no one is bringing this to light.
Bluto15 Jul 2017 07:27
There are a number of frat houses on Madison and Huron.Also a sorority or two. They are not official university residences. Know for heavy partying, as university students are wont to do. I believe this clarification is necessary, as those residences are the main concern of local residents.
Madison Scene Reality Check18 Jul 2017 12:00
For those of us who have spent some time living at Tartu College, many can attest to the fact that the frat houses on Madison have a significant impact on the street atmosphere at night time.

I saw frat boys pouring themselves drinks right on the steps to Tartu College and the sounds of their drunken revelry projected up the walls of the building. Their noise was so loud, it is like they were shouting just outside your window.

So if there is a 'public space' at EM2, as required by the city, be prepared to step over puddles of urine and vomit and share the space with drunken young men. Not a family-oriented safe space in my opinion!
Karl Otsa22 Jul 2017 11:01
How times have changed.

There was a time, when asked about which korporatsioon (male OR female) one belonged to was an honor to respond. Now due to SJW mandates this is an inappropriate invasion of privacy. Perhaps I should have been more polite and asked IF he belonged to one.

As to why I dared to pry into Hr. Meiusi's private life for the relevance concern, Tartu College has been a gathering point for fellowship and comradery since Tartu College was built. People would drive from Hamilton, London, Ottawa, Montreal, even from the USA. If he belonged to a korp he might have a better understanding and appreciation of the surroundings.

As for my “No I really don't think you understand the relevance. But you seem to have no problem smearing or insinuating Estonian fraternities with all the bad apples of the North American variety.”

These comments were in rebuttal to “Tartu College has made a business of servicing university students for nearly 50 years and through that history there have fortunately been very few bad actors and incidents that have impacted the residence negatively; at least in public forums. The same cannot be said of University of Toronto student populated fraternity houses that have inhabited the Annex over the decades.”

Why does Hr. Meiusi need to bring up a frat house whose current problems are garbage removal related. I don't get it so if you could “Rahamees” please explain how this is more important than the financial, structural and mechanical well being of the current Eesti Maja?

And my goodness there are current crime concerns!! Aren't there always crime concerns in any large metropolitan city in the world. Show me a similar sized city that has a crime rate LOWER than Toronto.

As for the Broadview location isn't exactly exempt from just as if not more violent crime. Please review the following,

http://www.torontosun.com/2015....

Now gentle readers “Rahamees” and “lugeja”, please indulge me when I ask some personal and private observations that you should answer to yourself or publicly as you prefer to hide behind anonymity.

I am truly hopeful that you have frequently visited JK, KJ, Seedrioru in the last years, if you had, did you ever find the parking to be atrocious or even bad? How about visiting Lakewood, Long Island, Chicago Eesti Majad? How bad is the parking at those locations? So why are attendance numbers at these venues down so greatly? If not the parking, what could it be? Bad location?

Guess what??

The parking and location of Toronto Eesti Maja haven't changed!

Unfortunately attendance numbers are also down. And getting there from the west end of the GTA and beyond is no better or worse than getting to Tartu College.... at least in my humble opinion. How many people won't go to the Eesti Maja when there are road closures or even bad weather? Why won't they take public transit instead?

So what is the problem with moving from 858 Broadview to Madison and Bloor? The parking is just as good/bad as it's current location. The same goes for the crime rate. Okay so the new building is going to be over and immediately adjacent to the TTC. How many buildings in Toronto share that same concern? Many condos and business towers actually brag about their proximity to the TTC, yet for the many naysayers of the move, as far as this possible development project is concerned it's a deterrent?

Additionally, gentle readers “Rahamees” and “lugeja”, I apologize for violating your codes of conduct. Hopefully I have addressed your concerns for my postings.

IF my postings have an “anti-Meuisi” slant, I must ask, why may I not express them if I find Hr. Meiusi's postings to be questionable or even “fake news”? Who are YOU to determine what may posted?

It would seem that there was a similar community feeling about Hr. Meiusi's postings when there was that brouhaha a few years back.

So then is the statement which I feel is obviously fear mongering and insulting by Hr. Meiusi.

“The Madison Project may have to look at the requirement for security and the recurring cost to support those measures, particularly in regard to students and other youth programs using the proposed new centre.”

I also wish to address the posts of one “Bluto” and “Madison Scene Reality Check”. One is an obvious post (as in thanks Captain Obvious). Drunk and disorderly are unfortunately rites of passage whether it be here next to Tartu College, Faber University or back in Eesti at Tartu Ülikool. As for public defecation and general unruliness I guess you haven't walked around Eaton's Centre or any-other to a major North American and the freshness of their “outdoor spaces”.

The flip-side of your observations is that either your parents didn't warn you of the problems around fraternity row AND/OR you didn't even bother to Google the area you decided to stay in.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30), Karl Otsa (21:59), Karl Otsa (12:43), Karl Otsa (17:25)
Rahamees22 Jul 2017 13:17
Karl, you are still completely missing the point of Meiusi article. He is simply providing valuable background information and due diligence to the EM2 process.

Let's remember that 4Orgs came up with the half-baked proposal hatched in secrecy, without any due diligence whatsoever. Their due diligence is supposed to be completed before the end of the year. So far we have heard exactly naught about any progress whatsoever. From PR perspective, the whole process has been atrociously managed, the self appointed PR experts who are supposed to know better have split the community. The results will reverberate for years to come.
Karl Otsa22 Jul 2017 11:02
The leaders of the 4Orgs as they've been referred to, are well respected professional individuals with decades of experience in their fields and will defer to experts when necessary. One graduated from UofT in Civil Engineer, is a P. Eng with nearly 40 years of experience. Is Hr. Meiusi and the rest of these anonymous posters really suggesting something that these 4Orgs and their experts haven't thought of?

Oh wait let's remind them the TTC is nearby, parking is limited, that there is crime in the streets of Toronto, or that heaven forbid that there might be some "shenanigans" near Fraternity houses!!

Finally gentle readers “Rahamees” and “lugeja” and the rest of you other anonymous posters, any chance you are willing to come out and disclose your true identities? It's perfectly understandable why you wouldn't want to, but please don't tell me what I opinions I am permitted to opine.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30), Karl Otsa (21:59), Karl Otsa (12:43), Karl Otsa (17:25), Karl Otsa (11:01)
Karl Otsa23 Jul 2017 16:51
Hr. Rahamees et al,

First you tell me that I am anti – Meiusi. Your are some what correct. I am not against the man, but against the material he posts.

Then you tell me that I don't “you are still completely missing the point of Meiusi article. He is simply providing valuable background information and due diligence to the EM2 process.” No I am NOT missing his point. His investigation skills may disclose materials that has yet to be brought to the public's attention. Unfortunately I view the information as useless. Please explain how YOU find his “information” to be pertinent to due diligence. Or is you real intent to only to insult the leaders of the 4Orgs.

Hr. Meiusi has NOT provided any valuable background information, unless he and you are leading the blind or ignorant, his posts have NOT added anything intelligent in my opinion.

Unless of course you too didn't know about the following items
1.) Tartu College is next to the TTC
2.) there is violence in the big city,
3.) frat houses are scenes for public displays of vulgarities,
4.) there is traffic congestion and
5.) parking problems.

In all fairness hr. Rahamees I hope I can get you to admit, all of the items above have been in existence since before Tartu College was even built. And since when is close proximity to a TTC Station been a deterrent to economic growth. And for those who don't use the TTC, the Spadina station is the intersection of THREE lines, yes 3 lines. The Young/York University line, Bloor/Danforth (the same one that services the Eesti Maja location but you need to take a bus in bad weather) and finally the Spadina line street car you know the one that intersects with both the King and Queen streetcar lines)

You have NOT answered any of my previous requests and you go directly to personally insulting the leads of the 4Orgs.

You state “Let's remember that 4Orgs came up with the half-baked proposal hatched in secrecy, without any due diligence whatsoever. Their due diligence is supposed to be completed before the end of the year. So far we have heard exactly naught about any progress whatsoever.”

So which is it Hr. Rahamees? Half baked before year-end, in secrecy, or no due-diligence??? I suggest that the 4Orgs proposal is based on Contingency plans. For your self-anointed title you seem to conveniently forget a MAJOR component in the project management process, CONTIGENY Plans.

As for splitting the community, spreading FAKE news such as Hr. Meisusi did in his last go round ended up costing Ehatare an Estonian MD and of course all the expense of defending his unfounded accusations. And Hr. Rahamees you seem to be his witless accomplice in this escapade.

In the Mid 1980s a group of individuals approached the leaders/executive of Eesti Maja with a proposal to “rebuild” 958 Broadview. This included a vision to rebuild and provide a multi-level building to help sustain the location …..

Guess what? This group was called heretics, bastards and any other name you could think of because THIS group of “noorikud” DARED to suggest that the Eesti Maja was in poor shape and should be addressed.

The condition of the facility was in question back in the mid-1980's by more than just this group of “noorikud”. Why wasn't this a wake-up call for the management AND the community.... because the executive REFUSED to even present it as an option! I am sure that those Eesti Maja executives meant no harm to Eesti Maja, but their personal emotions deterred them from making wise and prudent decisions. The same is happening today, with those who claim that Eesti Maja can be re-rehabilitated and the work could be done in stages. Unfortunately this is no longer a financially feasible option, nor has “going it alone” been an option for nearly 30 years.

As for a “PR nightmare”, I submit that along with Hr. Meiusi and YOU the anonymous naysayers that have caused the greatest amount of bad feelings within the Estonian community. You claim a witch hunt (undisclosed “information” and “proper due-diligence”) and you have yet to identify a witch.

Following Hr. Meiusi, who has become CNN, a purveyor of fake news and those that call themselves a “Rahamees” follow him like a pied-piper. All of this on-top of your unwillingness to attach your real name to your posts.

Why do you refuse to take ownership of your posts?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (18:30), Karl Otsa (21:59), Karl Otsa (12:43), Karl Otsa (17:25), Karl Otsa (11:01), Karl Otsa (11:02)
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