Riina Kindlam's comments are appropriate, well thought out and sincere. With this we have a healthy public debate about an issue that has been vexing for our community for many years. Folks, stay calm and focussed, and let's discuss the issue in a sensible Estonian manner.

It's unrealistic to expect teachers, camp counselors, and the like, to do a job that should begin at home.
To pass the language on to the next generation, first we must learn it ourselves. That's hard, but it's possible. Also, it's worth the effort.

Passion is great but in many communities in North America the reality is that there are hardly any children showing up never mind Estonian speaking children, further there are no scouts, no schools and not too many elders left either. Estonian-speaking organizers are in short supply and most are wearing too many hats. In short there is a desperation for people period.

If a community has a strong language base that is wonderful. Yes keep up the language. But it isn't the case generally in North America. Most organizations are suffering and losing a lot of ground every year. Facing the reality of demise is hard. We're rather like the optimist who falls out over a 20th floor balcony and at the 10th floor level says "See I'm still alright."

Estonian organizations in North America have been wrestling with this issue for 30-40 years. How to keep the vitality of the language, the inclusiveness of the society and the numerical strength of the community has been an onging discussion at many forums. It's not for the lack of ideas, that the problems are often raised. It's the the inability of Estonians to reach a wide consensus. We're too stubborn, individualistic and perhaps too traditional/conservative to accept the unfamiliar. Then again, all societies are.

I ummed and ahed about posting your article Riina to my Facebook... I wonder why? Will I offend, too sensitive an issue, who would be interested... I always post Estonian stuff! I wonder why? Food for thought and worth revisiting.

How offended and betrayed we would feel if someone proclaimed to our grandparents or recent immigrants, that they are not truly Canadian because they can't speak English perfectly. Something about "do unto others"...

I have occasion to be with "Estonian" teenagers and those in their early 20's. Despite what they might be telling their grandparents or even their parents, when conversing with each other, they speak ENGLISH. Most of these kids have parents that both speak english, participate actively in the Esto community, etc. etc. None-the-less, when no-one's watching or listening, the conversation immediately turns to the language in which they were schooled. "It's easier and faster, " they tell me.

My personal experience is the same. Other Estos speak in English to me... why? I'm not sure. I was born in Canada, grew up here and received my schooling here. I was raised by my grandmother and went to kindergarten not knowing a word of English. Despite being fluent in Esto, I still THINK in english. It's just the way it is.

I'm all for supporting the language, but feel it's a terrible shame to exclude or make anyone not strong in their Estonian feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. I'd rather spend an "Estonian" evening speaking english than a miserable one speaking Estonian.

English speaking Estonians are welcome at my house.

And what is wrong if an Estonian learns the German language and becomes a learned man, as long as he remains true to his people in his heart....I have been fortunate because it has been so with me and I am really proud that I can call myself an Estonian.

So what should the guide and scout leaders do, just speak in Estonian? We get a lot of kids that cannot make it to Estonian school (they live too far), should they not be allowed to take part? I'd rather keep the culture alive, and speak both languages, than have it die out now. Because if you alienate those that don't speak Estonian, that's what you'll do.

Täitsa hästi kirjutatud, Riina. Tabasid naelapea pihta.
Riina got it exactly right when she wrote that when children are enrolled in French Immersion, they are thrown right into it and have to figure out how to swim. Why? Because the only way to truly learn any language is by being immersed in it. I know this from experience. I remember sitting on the rug on my first day of French Immersion, hearing the teacher speaking a language totally foreign to me, and looking around at the other kids, certain that I was the only one who didn't understand what she was saying. And so I learned French. I had to, and now of course I'm glad I did.
Certainly no one should be made to feel inadequate for their lack of proficiency in Estonian, especially in a country where English is the language spoken, heard and used in every other facet of life on a daily basis. As Riina mentioned, the fact that we have even kept Estonian alive in Canada as many as four generations later is astonishing. But it is the Estonian community's rigorous defense of the language - by continuing to speak it, the only way a language can be defended - that has made this possible. Estonia is a nation whose most consistent historical characteristic is that of being invaded and occupied - by the Danes, the Swedes, the Germans, the Russians. Aside from the fact that this more or less negates any possibility of there existing a genetically "pure" Estonian bloodline, it explains why we feel so strongly about having to defend what DOES unite us, what DOES make us unique, what DOES make us Estonian. More than anything else, I think, language defines us. Kaob keel, kaob rahvas.
I've lived in a small village in Italy for the last six years, and it being a tourist town where enough people have at least a rudimentary grasp of English, I could probably get by with a bare minimum of Italian. But if I expect this community to embrace me, to consider me as one of its own, and to truly feel a rightful part of it myself, I have to speak its language. It would be arrogant and naive of me to expect otherwise. And why would I? Learning a new language, any language, opens doors on a social level, but also on a cerebral level. It can only benefit you.
I suspect that the person who wrote the original Letter to the Editor only speaks one language. I say this because anyone who is bi- or multilingual understands inherently how easily a language can be overshadowed or made altogether obsolete when in competition with another, more dominant one. This is something that happens on an individual level as well as on a communal level, and as Riina said, it is a legitimate threat. Learning and maintaining a language takes hard work, consistency, dedication and a sense of purpose. This is especially true if you are the product of a mixed marriage or have yourself married someone from another culture. I know this from experience too, as I myself am only half-Estonian. Certainly, deciding not to take on such a commitment is a personal, and perfectly legitimate choice, and it is unfair and unfortunate to be judged for it. But it is equally unfair to accuse a community of exclusion and snobbery because it does not easily accommodate a refusal to recognize and respect its very raison d'être. Protecting and propagating a culture's language is protecting its essence, its heart, and it IS a battle that matters. It is the battle that matters most.

Hästi kirjutatud Kiiri!

It seems this all began as less about an cultural attack, but about our individual experiences.

The issue of the churches was brought up in the discussion from the other article and serves as a great example. Many people, often Canadian spouses/partners of Estonians, genuinely appreciated the addition of English in the Christmas services. It was a warm, welcoming gesture.

My question is, did Estonians walk out of those services offended and outraged to hear English in addition to their own, or did they think "isn't it nice to see the seats filled in here once in a while?"

Just to recap Peter, you're offended that they referred to Canadians as...Canadian. That is an insult to you. Okay folks, nothing to see here, the time frame for rational thought has passed.

I'm glad that Riina wrote this response, because she is a great example of what the original author was seeking out. I have met Riina on many occasions and have rarely met a person who is more of a champion of the culture. But the key here is that she does so in a way that encourages participation and immersion. My Estonian isn't perfect but she continues to speak enthusiastically regardless.

A few years back, an acquaintance attended Metsa U"likool, with a basic level of Estonian under his belt. They could have turned him away, as some of you seem to think appropriate, but instead they took the approach of "give it your best shot."

A lot of people *are* trying. Just don't shoot them down for being halfway there. Its just not productive, or decent.