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VanemadUuemad
Can someone please change the channel..this is getting REALLY boring.
Unfortunately this channel is stuck on 'stupid'.
Show must go on...
What the F are you talking about ????
You show great understanding and insight in this extremely articulate piece. Not only is memory being erased , our Estonian cultural heritage in Toronto is being destroyed, by a group, including the president of EKN (and PK church board member) and Vice - President of EKN , who at a recent church meeting referred to our beautiful church as just "BRICKS AND MORTAR ". Instead of
preserving our cultural icon they are doing what even the KGB-sleeper cells/FSB /Moscow/Putin could not do over the past decades.
preserving our cultural icon they are doing what even the KGB-sleeper cells/FSB /Moscow/Putin could not do over the past decades.
FYI the author is a total nut bar.
Has the "esteemed" author ever donated or set foot into the church? Its all about the buidling to people like you and not about the congregation which is why the non believers don't get it.
Wonder what University of Toronto Professor emeritus Ants Elken, [born on this date, March 25, 1917], would have said about Tartu College's treatment of his student Michael Bach's work?
https://www.eesti.ca/ants-elke...
https://www.legacy.com/ca/obit...
https://www.arhitektuurimuuseu...
https://www.eesti.ca/ants-elke...
https://www.legacy.com/ca/obit...
https://www.arhitektuurimuuseu...
He would say that if you can't take care of it, you don't deserve it!
You couldn't take care of it!
So you will lose it!
Too sad. The truth doesn't care.
You couldn't take care of it!
So you will lose it!
Too sad. The truth doesn't care.
Beautiful essay. Thank you! This small building, Big'A'architecture as we practitioners of the trade, a trade of a "love of everything", IS the symbolic ethos of a people. Wake up Toronto Estonians. Arise above the mire.
Another useless, sanctimonious rant by one of the ‘friends’. Get a job already.
There is no doubt that the structure is beautiful, but expensive repairs await. It's all about having the funds to maintain it. Simple economics, which appear to be beyond the grasp of many, including the author of the article. Churches of all denominations all over the city are being sold. That's the sad reality.
does not have “to be beyond the grasp of many“. "What is at stake is the whole idea of the good life as we have known it" Good Economics for Hard Times, Banerjee & Duflo, 2019. “The resources to address these challenges are there – what we lack are ideas that will help us jump the wall of disagreement and distrust that divides us. If we succeed, history will remember our era with gratitude; if we fail, the potential losses are incalculable.“ "A case for an intelligent interventionism and a society built on compassion and respect".
At the world class Toronto Public Library and https://www.publicaffairsbooks...
At the world class Toronto Public Library and https://www.publicaffairsbooks...
Seems to me that the once vibrant Toronto Estonian community well has been poisoned by the agents of change. True, sometimes change is needed if it is for the betterment of the community. Unfortunately these change agents represent the minority of the community and also the financial strength. Money is power, so it's my way or the highway. The cavalier way in which these agents of change respond to "friends" who simply want to maintain connections to the past (not live in the past) is in itself destructive to the integrity of the community. All voices should be given the respect to be heard, whether for or against certain issues. That's what makes a community strong. By the grace of God, the Estonian diaspora will or will not survive this current turbulent time in our community.
Seems to me that the once vibrant Toronto Estonian community well has been poisoned by the agents of change. True, sometimes change is needed if it is for the betterment of the community. Unfortunately these change agents represent the minority of the community and also the financial strength. Money is power, so it's my way or the highway. The cavalier way in which these agents of change respond to "friends" who simply want to maintain connections to the past (not live in the past) is in itself destructive to the integrity of the community. All voices should be given the respect to be heard, whether for or against certain issues. That's what makes a community strong. By the grace of God, the Estonian diaspora will or will not survive this current turbulent time in our community.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Mitte ahf (12:35)
Get over yourself. Then do us all a favour and get out of here.
You are so clueless of the real situation. All the Friends can offer is to rearrange the deck chairs on this massive Titanic. Now that the vote to commit suicide is final, the end is inevitable. This will be quick and brutal...
With the vote in favour of throwing their parents' $20,000,000 legacy down the toilet, the Executive resigning at the next congregational meeting, the organist resigning, and most of the Advisory Committee contemplating quitting, how is the church going to function?
Which of the Friends are going to step up to the plate and form the new Executive... the new Advisory Committee... start looking for a new pastor... Repair the leaking roof and repair the rot... fix/replace the boiler... make all the changes required to meet the current fire code... remodel the kitchen to meet regulations... pay for the niches that must be bought back... prepare all the tax receipts every year... maintain the accounting perfectly so that the charitable status is not taken away by the CRA... prepare a working budget for every congregational meeting that will be accepted by a hostile, angry 66%?
Is anyone going to donate and throw their good money after bad anymore after this?
The tide has gone out. The Friends are playing on the beach collecting seashells, and the incoming Tsunami is just over the horizon!
Is this harsh reality too much to take? Just watch... You ain't seen nuthin' yet...
Which of the Friends are going to step up to the plate and form the new Executive... the new Advisory Committee... start looking for a new pastor... Repair the leaking roof and repair the rot... fix/replace the boiler... make all the changes required to meet the current fire code... remodel the kitchen to meet regulations... pay for the niches that must be bought back... prepare all the tax receipts every year... maintain the accounting perfectly so that the charitable status is not taken away by the CRA... prepare a working budget for every congregational meeting that will be accepted by a hostile, angry 66%?
Is anyone going to donate and throw their good money after bad anymore after this?
The tide has gone out. The Friends are playing on the beach collecting seashells, and the incoming Tsunami is just over the horizon!
Is this harsh reality too much to take? Just watch... You ain't seen nuthin' yet...
It doesn't matter if you unlike the above comment! It's just the way it is. Nothing you can do about it now... or in the future.
Your fate is sealed.
Your fate is sealed.
Well, the congregation voted 65.5 % in favour of the sale. This was not enough to pass the motion as to which developer to sell to. Let's hope the next juhatus comes up with some new ideas.
Unlikely.
It is great news that democracy has prevailed. Without those who had given up on the church and were only interested in selling it as soon as possible, we will hopefully be able to look at some solutions to save the church or even to keep it going as long as possible.
Anyone who follows the news knows that our current federal government's policy is to drastically raise our population levels. Toronto and the surrounding area will grow by leaps and bounds. This means that real estate prices will only go up and if we really do reach the point where we have no choice but to sell the church, either because of needed repairs or a declining congregation, the value may be double that of what it is now. I ask the pessimists, why then should we sell now? Wouldn't it be better to wait as long as possible? Also, why do we have 2 Estonian Lutheran congregations so close together? Merging them together makes a lot of sense since then the other one would not have to pay rent and we could all use the same church. A few years ago we finally put our 2 (even 3 at one time) newspapers together so it only makes sense to do the same with our congregations. Hopefully we will get a new leadership that will be honest, transparent and will work to keep our church going for as long as possible and look for real solutions to stop the decline and look at some real solutions so some of our problems.
Anyone who follows the news knows that our current federal government's policy is to drastically raise our population levels. Toronto and the surrounding area will grow by leaps and bounds. This means that real estate prices will only go up and if we really do reach the point where we have no choice but to sell the church, either because of needed repairs or a declining congregation, the value may be double that of what it is now. I ask the pessimists, why then should we sell now? Wouldn't it be better to wait as long as possible? Also, why do we have 2 Estonian Lutheran congregations so close together? Merging them together makes a lot of sense since then the other one would not have to pay rent and we could all use the same church. A few years ago we finally put our 2 (even 3 at one time) newspapers together so it only makes sense to do the same with our congregations. Hopefully we will get a new leadership that will be honest, transparent and will work to keep our church going for as long as possible and look for real solutions to stop the decline and look at some real solutions so some of our problems.
Democracy prevailed for sure. But so will reality!
That prevails over democracy!!!
That prevails over democracy!!!
A ‘friends’ dominated juhatus?? Standby for the ultimate gong show. Can’t wait lol!!!!!
Õpetussõnad 10:3 Mõistliku huultel leidub tarkust,
aga meeletu seljale on vitsa vaja.
14 Targad panevad tallele, mida teavad,
aga rumala suu toob hukatuse lähedale.
15 Rikka varandus on tema tugev linn,
vaestele on nende vaesus hukatuseks.
16 Õige inimese töötasu on eluks,
õela tulu on patuks.
17 Kes hoiab õpetust, on elurajal,
aga kes põlgab noomimist, eksib ära.
22 See on Issanda õnnistus, mis teeb rikkaks,
ja oma vaev ei lisa sellele midagi juurde.
aga meeletu seljale on vitsa vaja.
14 Targad panevad tallele, mida teavad,
aga rumala suu toob hukatuse lähedale.
15 Rikka varandus on tema tugev linn,
vaestele on nende vaesus hukatuseks.
16 Õige inimese töötasu on eluks,
õela tulu on patuks.
17 Kes hoiab õpetust, on elurajal,
aga kes põlgab noomimist, eksib ära.
22 See on Issanda õnnistus, mis teeb rikkaks,
ja oma vaev ei lisa sellele midagi juurde.
Kus on ligimese armastus? Mõistus seda ei mõista. Peab süda avama- tuleks seda proovida! Näiteks, kui keegi lööb vastu põske, keera talle teine. Anna mantel kui keegi varastab kuue. Õnnistatud on vaimus vaesed, sest nende päralt on taevariik. Ja veel…mäejutlusest. Armastus. Ja rõõm. Palume neid!
I do not agree with all of the ideas that were presented by the Friends in their report but at least they did have ideas, unlike our church leadership. It is great news that the Salvation Army has renewed the rental agreement and hopefully, other congregations can be found that may be interested in renting since we all know how expensive real estate is in Toronto and that puts our church in an excellent situation to generate some income and stay afloat, hopefully for many years to come.
The former leadership only fed the conspiracy theorists by not looking into any any options to save the church and just trying to sell it as soon as possible. Didn't they realize that their behavior would feed the rumors that the money from the sale of the church would go into the bottomless pit called Keskus?
The former leadership only fed the conspiracy theorists by not looking into any any options to save the church and just trying to sell it as soon as possible. Didn't they realize that their behavior would feed the rumors that the money from the sale of the church would go into the bottomless pit called Keskus?
Step 1: find a quiet place
Step 2: drop your trousers
Step 3: remove your head from your a—.
Step 2: drop your trousers
Step 3: remove your head from your a—.
You have no idea what the board did over the years.
We're all watching and waiting for your miracle cure with your wunderkind expert frienzds.
You sure blew a good offer!
We're all watching and waiting for your miracle cure with your wunderkind expert frienzds.
You sure blew a good offer!
There will always be another offer - but why force the congregation into accepting one without comparables? No one likes to be cornered. I guess that shows how the current group works. I hope the new council can do better. Hopefully there are opportunities to explore as a congregation.
Toronto real estate prices dipped due to covid, but are now bouncing back and are likely to keep rising for the foreseeable future. With that context, your comment "You sure blew a good offer!" makes no sense. If the church isn't truly bankrupt and doesn't need be sold, why sell it? Seems like the "worst case" scenario is that it has to be sold after all at some point down the read but there will certainly be other offers and the sale price will likely be substantially higher so what's the downside to giving people a chance to make it work.
Selling the church at this time and so fast really makes no sense. The congregation has been told that some of the money would go to moving the columbarium and the rest would be invested. What kind of investments? How much of a return will they generate? How safe are they? Will the money lose its value in this time of high inflation? Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the church will go bankrupt, maybe in 5 years. We should then wait until that time and make plans to sell and maybe buy a smaller commercial building to use as a church. This would eliminate the need to rent a building and give us a solid asset that we could also rent out to generate income. The pews and much of the church interior could then be repurposed into the new church.
No such plan has been presented to the congregation. Only a plan with very vague talk about investments. The congregation deserves better than this.
No such plan has been presented to the congregation. Only a plan with very vague talk about investments. The congregation deserves better than this.
What you are all missing here is that without closing the columbarium, the church property has no value, and the so called friends have been actively lobbying the registrar to block closing the columbarium. So there goes your pipe dream of holding out for more money. Also, if we become insolvent, developers will know it’s a fire sale opportunity to get the land at a better price since we will be over a barrel. The unmitigated gall of known opponents to the sale saying we need to get more for the property is beyond the pale.
Until a decision is reached, the application can be withdrawn and resubmitted. This may happen a few things as circumstances change. Why the urgency with all this? Why not be logical, give the group a chance, if they fail, you have a fallback position. And maybe a better solution. So the real question is, after the $20 mil, less costs and commission, ends up with the congregation and has to be dispersed, where will it end up?
Most of the ‘friends’ dont work or have not worked in decades. Their grip on how things work in the real world is absent. Have pity on them, please. They don’t know any better.
Willem, poor you, you sound so, so one-dimensional, and hey do you know Gunther?
Many of those “friends”, who have the gift of good health, will tell you they have never been so busy in their lives. Wisdom does manifest itself when you are not on the clock workin’ for the man. It is the ‘job’ of the wise ones, your Elders, to consider and weigh all the options in benefit for us all. So listen up Cowboy, you will be there soon enough one day.
Many of those “friends”, who have the gift of good health, will tell you they have never been so busy in their lives. Wisdom does manifest itself when you are not on the clock workin’ for the man. It is the ‘job’ of the wise ones, your Elders, to consider and weigh all the options in benefit for us all. So listen up Cowboy, you will be there soon enough one day.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: rkomendant@studiok.ca (10:18)
Looks like finally Rita crawled out from whatever rock she was hiding under. Hurray someone is finally here to save the day.
Why on earth would the frienzies lodge a complaint about the last vote when they have already won?
Do they want to just rub it in to the rest of the congregation?
Unbelievable...
Do they want to just rub it in to the rest of the congregation?
Unbelievable...
Why would they? Only people with links to special interest groups would do that- they have the most to lose, not the crazy friends!!
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