European court equates Nazi and communist crimes
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Anonymous18 Sep 2006 12:08
The precedent is welcome.
What accounts for the light sentence, however? Were the accused low-ranking actors, or, have the grisly details of the offence been bleached out with the passage of many decades?
Where can I learn more about this case?
Maxim18 Sep 2006 12:08
The European High court is only interested in settling disputes whichfit squarely within the context of argument within the affairs of the European Union. This case has to do with a situation outside of the parameters of the EU-s powers ie it is retrospective by nature, and only leads to a widening of the dispute, which is on no interest whatsoever to the EHC. It is also worth noting here that effectively it is a strong message that the Estonian Republic's affairs were those of the Estonian Republic, and are of absolutely no interest to the European Union. In fact the EU is only interested in assisting Estonia to forget her past and move onto the future. Yet another example of the short-sightedness of people voting in favour of joining the EU at the expense of all the Estonian traditions and values that we have been thus far able to hold dear. I hope the anti-EU chorus manages to shout above the lies and miscarriage of justice that is being brought to bear against our beloved fatherland.
to Maxim18 Sep 2006 16:32
If the European Court of Human Rights had no interest in this case, then it wouldn't have adjudicated it.
You should do a little research, then think about it, before shooting your mouth off impulsively?
You ask too much!18 Sep 2006 19:19
This is the same Maxim who recently told us that he plans to get away from all those Russians who are about to flood into Estonia. -- How? -- By moving to Russia!
Toomas Merilo18 Sep 2006 19:25
This is exacty the case in point. If the European Court of Human Rights had no interest in this case, then it wouldn't have adjudicated it.
You should do a little research, then think about it, before shooting your mouth off impulsively?
Miriam Morgenthau18 Sep 2006 12:52
Although interesting, your logic here is somewhat convoluted.
Toomas Merilo18 Sep 2006 16:18
MAXIM once again demonstrates him firm and complete grasp of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I have often been bewildered at the degree of his misinformation. But maybe, with really hard work and steely determination, anybody can become as uninformed as MAXIM.

So let's get to the meat: M writes that "The European High court is only interested in settling disputes whichfit squarely within the context of argument within the affairs of the European Union".

OK, this sounds fine, except that the European High Court is an organ of the Council of Europe, NOT the EU. It was first created in 1954 as European Commission of Human Rights.

Members of the Council of Europe include Russia, inter alia.

All of MAXIM's furtrher statements are totally wrong because he has mixed up the EU and the CoE (or never understood the difference).

Also Eesti has been a member of the CoE years before being admitted into the EU.

So MAXIM ounce scores a beautiful ZERO. Congratulations.
Maxim19 Sep 2006 09:08
It's never been more obvious till now that you know absolutely nothing about the subtelties of how Estonian sovereignty has been whittled down to practically nothing! We now have an Estonia that is ten times less independent in EVERY RESPECT than it was during the First Estonian Republic, because of some of our ministers' constant pandering to the Council of Europe and later to the EU. It's a complete shame that you, Mr. Merilo, hold a position of responsibily within the Canadian Estonian Community and have done nothing more than played the role of a contemporary "fellow traveller" in agreeing with the selling off of Estonia for the lowest basement price to any one who wants it! Our economy is in a dreadful shambes, our internal political situation has never been less democratic than it is now, and all you continue to do is sing false praises from the comfort of your armchair, thinking you are doing Estonia the world of good!! Well wake up to yourself-you're simply a rehash of Victor Kingisepp in reverse! It's as perverted as that, as disgusting as that thought could ever be. You show absolutely no depth of understanding of Estonian politics, yet you come here winging and complaining about me. Fortunately for you, most Estonians know where you're coming from, and it is YOU, Mr Merilo who scores a big fat ZERO yet again!!!
Peeter Pervelaid19 Sep 2006 11:35
"OK, this sounds fine, except that the European High Court is an organ of the Council of Europe, NOT the EU".

To imagine that these two institutions have no common interests is to take the absurd to the extreme.
Who should we believe?19 Sep 2006 12:15
On the one hand, we have Merilo -- singing from the comfort of his armchair; on the other, we have Maxim -- barking at the end of his chain.
So, who should we believe? What Merilo states is clear and can be verified. What Maxim is barking about isn't so certain. No one will follow him -- the seeing-eye-dog for Estonia, the kingdom of the blind -- because we either can't understand or believe what he's barking about.
maximum19 Sep 2006 12:16
You only write here to provocate.
Maxim, go to the forest!
Toomas Merilo19 Sep 2006 12:21
MAXIM... take break. I deal with facts.

You with delusion.
Maxim19 Sep 2006 12:29
Go whine somewhere else Merilo. You're just plain boring!
EE_Lugeja19 Sep 2006 11:38
I wonder what Maxim means by "... a rehash of Victor Kingisepp in reverse! " I would think that the above quote means that Mr. Merilo is a staunch anti communist . So that's a good thing. I seriously wonder if Maxim really lives in Estonia. His remark regarding the Estonian economy does not match what I saw and heard in Estonia in early summer. Here is a reference regarding the state of Estonian economy for this summer. http://www.vm.ee/eng/kat_198/
On page 5 it states that for Q1 the economy grew by 11.6 percent year-on-year. The unemployment rate is 4.9 percent down from 8.2 percent , from May 2005 to May 2006 .
Just like the tourism info he tried to pedal off on us, he is full of disinformation regarding Estonia. Someone should look up the meaning of the word shamb(l)es.I question his motive(s). I don't know Mr. Merilo but I take my hat off to him. He is willing to put his name on the line while someone else attacks him from the shadows.
I personally am neutral on the EU. There are some things that are good and others not so good. I am not for going over to the Euro. I do believe that doing so would chip away at Estonia's identity. One last thing , I don't see Mr. Merilo " ..sing false praises .. " . As a matter of fact I havent seen him sing any praises at all. I do believe that someone is seriously deranged and disillusioned.
Maxim19 Sep 2006 12:28
Fact; the Estonian economy is "booming" because of the number of people here borrowing money to purchase real estate. If that sounds like a pretty good way of hoping the economy is making the best strides possible, then it says a lot about your ability to analyze economic progress.
Anonymous20 Sep 2006 07:21
A large portion of the economic gain in Eesti is from borrowing which is both good and bad. Estonia had virtually no credit or loans up until now and they are simply catching up to other western nations. However, they are probably borrowing to fast which is causing increased inflation and risks for the future as interest rates rise but to say that the economy is currently in shambles would be incorrect.

Unemployment rate is down to 7% in 2006. Real wages have increased 8.3% in 2006 (compared to almost 0% in the US). Estonia's tourist industry is booming, succes stories such as Skype (which was primarily foreign owned but pumped almost 2 billion EEK into Eesti at the time of it's sale) and Playtech demonstrate that the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking.

For a good overview of Eesti's econonmy have a look here: http://www.eestipank.info/pub/...
Toomas (not Merilo)20 Sep 2006 11:46
Thanks for the reference to Estonia's Central Bank newsletter. It's a useful, reliable source.
For a broad view of Estonia's recovery from communism, I'd alert readers to Uno Mereste's "Elamisväärse iseseisvuse taastamisel" (1992-2002). It's written by an economist who played a major role in the process and, as a bonus, it's written in mellifluous Estonian -- a joy to read.
I wonder where Maxim gets his information? The incoherent quality of it is enough to make one think that he might be hearing voices. It's a shameful thing to witness.
Of all the criticisms that might be leveled against Merilo, it's odd that Maxim would accuse him of being boring. Does Maxim see himself as entertaining? I'm sure that he is to the minority who laugh at stammerers. But most of us see him as arrogant, ignorant and, yet, with hopes of becoming a stump-orator when he grows up.
Maxim20 Sep 2006 12:11
You've got a pretty good grasp on things, Anonymous, but just to be sure, let's keep an eye on what Moody's says in the foreseeable future. Vahur Kraft recently expressed more than average concern about borrowing levels, but he alone can't do much to solve the problem. The banks will have to learn the hard way with foreclosures and bankruptcies, before it stops handing out easy money. And sure, the unemployment rates are lower than expected, but that's ONLY due to the fact that scummy wages mean you've got to work more than one job just to make ends meet! We should be careful and include this point when singing the praises of the Estonian economy. Doctors (those who haven't already left the country!) are alarmed at the low mortality of Estonian men. From what? From working themselves to an early death! It's a vicious cycle, but no'one seems to care anyway, and those who do usually give up and leave the rest to fate.
Lucinda Kaur20 Sep 2006 13:22
Thank you, Maxim, for sticking to your guns! I know the Canadian-Estonian scene well enough, and left probably for the same reason as you did. I see the same stench rising from these comments as if I were actually attending a function at the club! Stick you what you believe.
to -- Lucinda/Maxim20 Sep 2006 21:41
If you actually left the Canadian-Estonian scene, then you wouldn't be mouthing off in EE.
Pilt21 Sep 2006 10:10
The vitriol on these pages is thicker and more vicious than the rantings of a delusional one eyed mullah!
How is it that the skewed views of Canadian armchair reactionaries are the only ones that count on this page? The extreme ultra nationalism and the assassination of any alternative ideas or questions are shameful. I thought these pages were meant for debate, not the anti-intellectual rants of a few failed relics: they are an embarrassment to this community.
old one-eye21 Sep 2006 11:51
DEMAND IMMEDIATE ABJECT PUBLIC APOLOGY FROM INFIDEL PILT !!! COMPARISON OF ARMCHAIR ESTONIANS WITH DELUSIONAL MULLAHS EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE !!! MAY THE URINE OF GOATS BE FOREVER CURDLED IN YOUR CUP !!!
Anonymous21 Sep 2006 12:01
These pages are for commentary on the subjects at hand. Unfortunately, Maxim has hi-jacked them to lecture us on anything that happens to be on his alleged mind. He is invariably uninformed, confused and convinced that he is the only one that knows anything. He has never been known to concede a point. In the face of criticism, he obfuscates and changes the topic, ungrammatically and illogically, so that he can barely be understood.
He seems to be motivated by a grudge against the Canadian-Estonian community, possibly justified, because a semi-literate who wants to hector us as an intellectual sets himself up as a big target for ridicule. It's the only possible response. Rational discussion is out of the question with this type of head-case.
Pilt21 Sep 2006 12:16
Your explanation is appreciated . . .but it cements my point.
Can an idea not be debated without throwing emotional and personal barbs? Must everyone with a different opinion be ridiculed as ‘stupid’ or ‘inarticulate’ or ‘illogical’?
It makes the entire community seem petty, fractured, and incapable of producing constructive dialogue on real issues.
Grow up or stop misrepresenting us!
Pilt21 Sep 2006 12:22
Ha Ha!! Touché!!
Anonymous21 Sep 2006 12:47
Again, good points and bad. Borrowing is a concern, I attended a lecture by Indrek Neivelt (former Hansabank head) a month or so ago and it was his main worry because and increase in interest rates will hurt the economy significantly. As for holding 2 jobs, I don't know of any unemployment statistic that changes depending on the # of jobs a person holds, any eco101 text will tell you that the unemployment rate is
calculated as the percentage of the
labor force that is unemployed, this wouldn't be affected in anyway by having more than 1 job.

Your concern about more and more people working themselves to death is something to worry about, that I agree with. I've personally seen people increase their workload and sacrifice family time and personal health to chase that extra 1000 kroon a month, so much so it reminds me of North Americans. :-p
Maxim21 Sep 2006 12:51
You're entitled to your own opinion, but would you kindly stick to criticizing ideas and not people like me! Ia have been saying this for the past two years, but you are all such SLOOOOOO learners that the point needs to be made again and again..and ag......I welcome a broadening of exchange of ideas, and I have always said that I would like to hear more about the ideas that my critics hold. To date, nothing but verbal diahorrea and character assassination (with the occasional English lesson thrown in for good measure) has been the order of the day. It is simply pathetic! And I suspect the rest of the Estonian community out there must be wondering the same thing. What do you do on Eesti Vabariigi Aastapäev these days-burn people at the stake if they dare to think anything different to you? I wonder what you think of Teet Veispak's article in today's EPL? Do you know anything at all about Estonian politics and cultural affairs????
unanimous21 Sep 2006 18:41
If that's what you truly believe, then you are both stupid and insane.
Maxim21 Sep 2006 22:52
Did you have anything constructive to add to your usual style of commenting??
SLOOOOOO learner22 Sep 2006 06:39
Based on ignorance or misunderstanding, Maxim sends us his outlandish comments, usually coupled with insult or disdain. If we disagree, we're called "SLOOOOOO learners", or worse. Moreover, Maxim asks for a constructive response.
Sorry, Maximahv, -- nonsense and insult doesn't lend itself to discussion.
1) What can we do but jeer when you tell us that you plan to get away from Russians in Estonia by moving to Russia? (Proof that you are a nut.)
2) What can we say when you can't see the distinction between a tourist and an immigrant? (You ignoramus.)
3) You announce, without corroborating evidence, that the tourism industry is suffering. Every other source, without exception, states the opposite. (Is that from a voice in your head?)
4) As if any country could be isolated from the surrounding community of nations, Maxim asserts, without evidence, that judicial and economic agreements incorporate a catastrophic loss of sovereignty. (Even North Korea isn't completely sealed off from the rest of the world.)
5) Based on "evidence" that he acquired in secret meetings, Maxim tells us that Freemasons rule the world. (You believe your fantasies.)
6) This list could go on and on; but let's summarize it with reference to its common thread: Maxim possesses a wealth of information known only to himself and those who doubt it are, in his words, "SLOOOOOO learners", or worse.
Furthermore, how does Maxim expect us to respond "constructively" to his insults.
1) Maxim has accused us of being Nazi sympathizers. (Nonsense! Peter and Peeter excepted.)
2) Maxim has stated that Estonian women "entertained" German troops during WW II. (You can't generalize from a few sluts.)
3) Maxim has stated that the Orthodox minority (10%) is to be credited for Estonian culture. (Arvo Pärt doesn't prove your point anymore than one swallow makes a summer.)
4) Maxim has stated that we have forfeited our right to return to Estonia. (You should look up 'forfeit' in the dictionary.)

Who do you think you are Maxim? You come here uninvited to spout nonsense on topics of your own choosing, as if you were a syndicated columnist, and layer it with insult. And in response, you truly believe that you deserve respect? Why?
maximum22 Sep 2006 07:22
Braavo!
Maxim22 Sep 2006 14:20
This is just another vitriolic spout intended to damn my good name. There is again misreference upon misreference, and the lies that my critics keep coming up with show us their true colours. Character assasination upon character assasination without an ounce of interesting rebuttle; nothing to show that they know or care about Estonian affairs, and the same old hogwash that keeps getting regirgitated over and over again. It's a shame and a disgrace, and reflects badly on wha'ts left of the Estonian community in Canada. Come on, you can do better than you're doing, surely?????
EE_Lugeja20 Sep 2006 12:45
I don't believe this stuff I am reading. Could someone please explain to me how working more than one job lowers the unemployment rate. Sounds like someone doesn't understand how /what the unemployment rate is , and how it is calculated. The other statement about the low mortality and alarmed doctors. Isn't a low mortality good , doesn't it mean that LESS men are dieing. Am I missing something here or do the Estonian doctors wish that more men would die ? I have never read anything more absurd .
bored20 Sep 2006 13:05
You must be new to Maxim's ramblings.
another reader20 Sep 2006 13:16
One particular difference between what Maxim says compared to that of his critics is that he is never sarcastic, and he seems to draw on evidence relevant to what is actually happening in Estonia. I'm surprised that his opposition time and again fail to rebutt in the same way. Instead, they get nasty.
What an amazing sight!20 Sep 2006 13:55
I wonder how it is that "another reader" and "Lucinda Kaur" express themselves with the same clumsy syntax that was once exclusively Maxim's?
Soomest20 Sep 2006 15:02
The former communists would like to continue their f...ing terror against estonian people! Arnold Ruutel is a PAST and american-swedish-estonian ILVES is the future! That,s my opinion right now..... T.H.Ilves WILL BE the next PRESIDENT of Estonia! :)
Soomest20 Sep 2006 15:02
The former communists would like to continue their f...ing terror against estonian people! Arnold Ruutel is a PAST and american-swedish-estonian ILVES is the future! That,s my opinion right now..... T.H.Ilves WILL BE the next PRESIDENT of Estonia! :)
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.