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0Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: f.y.i., Mr. Naelapea (15:37)
It's a shame that our newspaper has taken Marta's side in "the Ehatare affair" which is, at bottom, an employee-employer dispute.
The paper should serve the whole community, not just a part.
The paper should serve the whole community, not just a part.
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8How do you come to the conclusion that I have taken "Marta's side" in the Ehatare affair? Nowhere in this opinion piece did I write that. I did emphatically note that it is a crying shame that people comment about Ehatare and attach that comment to stories that have nothing to do with the issue. Your comment falls into this category, unfortunately.
I also note two comments addressed to me have been deleted by the editors. I wonder what they said? And whether the commentator actually read the opinion piece. Perhaps you, as well, did not read this opinion piece carefully? My concern is regarding those who attack others anonymously, and this leaves our Estonian-Canadian community with a fat lip - or even a black eye, when read by people who are not part of our diaspora. Please refrain from personal attacks. It behooves no one.
I also note two comments addressed to me have been deleted by the editors. I wonder what they said? And whether the commentator actually read the opinion piece. Perhaps you, as well, did not read this opinion piece carefully? My concern is regarding those who attack others anonymously, and this leaves our Estonian-Canadian community with a fat lip - or even a black eye, when read by people who are not part of our diaspora. Please refrain from personal attacks. It behooves no one.
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16<div class="deleted_comment">Kommentaar on kustutatud EWR toimetuse poolt.
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3For years, Maxim ran riot here, goading and insulting "väliseestlased" and broadcasting ridiculous conspiracy theories. He finally tired out, before encountering any resistance from the editors of the Internet paper.
During the recent "civil war" in out community, however, Ehatare and, by extension, its residents have been under relentless attack. The editors have been "blind and deaf"; in effect, siding with those who have tried to destroy Ehatare in acts of revenge for a dismissed employee.
The families of residents have been distressed by misleading reporting on the matter. These dried up after written complaints where sent to the editors. Third-party acts of slander and sabotage against Ehatare continued, however, and family members have cried out against them by way of readers' comments -- the only avenue open to them. Now, the editors erase those! For whose benefit and by what basic standard of decency?
During the recent "civil war" in out community, however, Ehatare and, by extension, its residents have been under relentless attack. The editors have been "blind and deaf"; in effect, siding with those who have tried to destroy Ehatare in acts of revenge for a dismissed employee.
The families of residents have been distressed by misleading reporting on the matter. These dried up after written complaints where sent to the editors. Third-party acts of slander and sabotage against Ehatare continued, however, and family members have cried out against them by way of readers' comments -- the only avenue open to them. Now, the editors erase those! For whose benefit and by what basic standard of decency?
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9No wonder your comments get deleted - you write them anonymously and full of personal attacks. Why don't you come out under your real name and write a proper and substantiated article about your grievances? Stand up for what you belive!
I'm sure you'll get published. Otherwise you are just a troll.
I'm sure you'll get published. Otherwise you are just a troll.
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14The defenders of Ehatare should adopt the pen name 'Maxim' so that the slanderers and saboteurs of Ehatare can be criticized.
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6Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Tõnu (07:15)
Standing up for what I believe is not enough!
Tarvo Toomes and (the late) Ervin Aleve both wrote letters defending Ehatare which were published. Yet, the slander and sabotage continued -- with no newspaper reports!
I'm prepared to come out under my real name and compose an article under the following reasonable conditions: (1) that the article appears on the net and in the paper -- without editing; (2) that the people identified either admit to the alleged misdeeds, or, sue me for slander; (3) and that the miscreants publicly acknowledge wrong-doing to the Estonian community at large; (4) ask for forgiveness from Ehatare residents and staff; (5) and promise to avoid repetition.
Tarvo Toomes and (the late) Ervin Aleve both wrote letters defending Ehatare which were published. Yet, the slander and sabotage continued -- with no newspaper reports!
I'm prepared to come out under my real name and compose an article under the following reasonable conditions: (1) that the article appears on the net and in the paper -- without editing; (2) that the people identified either admit to the alleged misdeeds, or, sue me for slander; (3) and that the miscreants publicly acknowledge wrong-doing to the Estonian community at large; (4) ask for forgiveness from Ehatare residents and staff; (5) and promise to avoid repetition.
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5Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Tõnu (07:15), to -- observer (08:34)
you'll feel much better in a courtroom when you have your say ...
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1I would go for it, but; I need some cooperation from the papers. How about it, Tõnu Naelapea?
If I'm wrong, in this matter, there's a nice payday in it for the alleged miscreants. They'll be awarded costs and damages.
If I'm wrong, in this matter, there's a nice payday in it for the alleged miscreants. They'll be awarded costs and damages.
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6under the following reasonable conditions: (1) that the article appears on the net and in the paper -- without editing; (2) that the people identified either admit to the alleged misdeeds, or, sue me for slander; (3) and that the miscreants publicly acknowledge wrong-doing to the Estonian community at large; (4) ask for forgiveness from Ehatare residents and staff; (5) and promise to avoid repetition.
Really? Anything else you want? What planet are you from?
Really? Anything else you want? What planet are you from?
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14Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: observer (16:09)
It's been a few years, but I do not recall Maxim slandering anybody personally. He was a troll, critizising and baiting "valiseestlased", but "valiseestlased" do not consitute a protected minority.
Many Maxim's views were generally not accepted, but even a person like Maxim should have his freedom of expression.
Many Maxim's views were generally not accepted, but even a person like Maxim should have his freedom of expression.
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12Observer doesn't observe.
Maxim gratuitously slandered the "sõjapõgenikud" with allegations the men were Nazi collaborators, the women were sluts, and that Lutherans were the "white trash" of Estonia's population.
I agree that Maxim should enjoy freedom of expression, but disagree with Observer over his right to slander.
Eesti Elu is on Observer's side of this issue: for years, it acted as Maxim's enabler, much to the distress of the general readership. Maxim was never censored and, living in Estonia, he is beyond the reach of Canadian law.
If Maxim ever came to Canada, I'd like to give him the kind of the beating that he richly deserves. Afterwards, I'd plead guilty -- with an explanation -- and be out of jail before he's out of the hospital.
In parallel with Maxim, those sabotaging Ehatare currently enjoy favour with our newspaper -- any criticism is promptly erased.
Maxim gratuitously slandered the "sõjapõgenikud" with allegations the men were Nazi collaborators, the women were sluts, and that Lutherans were the "white trash" of Estonia's population.
I agree that Maxim should enjoy freedom of expression, but disagree with Observer over his right to slander.
Eesti Elu is on Observer's side of this issue: for years, it acted as Maxim's enabler, much to the distress of the general readership. Maxim was never censored and, living in Estonia, he is beyond the reach of Canadian law.
If Maxim ever came to Canada, I'd like to give him the kind of the beating that he richly deserves. Afterwards, I'd plead guilty -- with an explanation -- and be out of jail before he's out of the hospital.
In parallel with Maxim, those sabotaging Ehatare currently enjoy favour with our newspaper -- any criticism is promptly erased.
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7FYI, there is a BIG difference between defamation towards a group and defamation towards an individual. In general, when you make defamatory statements about an individual, it is actionable (they can sue you and anybody who publishes it).
Defamatory statements about a group or class of people generally are not actionable by individual members of that group or class.
So there are no legal consequenses for saying that 'all Estonians were Nazi collaborators', but you can easily get sued for saying John Smith (555 Main St) 'cursed and yelled at 90 year resident'.
Defamatory statements about a group or class of people generally are not actionable by individual members of that group or class.
So there are no legal consequenses for saying that 'all Estonians were Nazi collaborators', but you can easily get sued for saying John Smith (555 Main St) 'cursed and yelled at 90 year resident'.
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13Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: observer (16:09), observer (16:16)
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4Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to -- observer (18:11)
Not sure why I'm doing this - this is a classical case of feeding a troll, but one last time:
If someone said, "all Estonians were Nazi collaborators", every Estonian has been slandered. Because the slander is distributive; each Estonian is entitled to sue.
They can sue all the want, but each case will be dismissed on first hearing. Source: practicing lawyer for 30 years
Moreover, if "John Smith (555 Main St) cursed and yelled at 90 year resident", Smith is not guilty of slander; rather, verbal assault, something quite different.
I'm not talking about the alleged cursing and yelling, I'm talking about reporting about it. If you go around saying that this or that individual did something and it turns out that she didn't do it, you open yourself up for a lawsuit. So does a paper who prints your allegations. You have to line up your witnesses, write a story and if the paper verifies your story, they may consider publishing it.
If someone said, "all Estonians were Nazi collaborators", every Estonian has been slandered. Because the slander is distributive; each Estonian is entitled to sue.
They can sue all the want, but each case will be dismissed on first hearing. Source: practicing lawyer for 30 years
Moreover, if "John Smith (555 Main St) cursed and yelled at 90 year resident", Smith is not guilty of slander; rather, verbal assault, something quite different.
I'm not talking about the alleged cursing and yelling, I'm talking about reporting about it. If you go around saying that this or that individual did something and it turns out that she didn't do it, you open yourself up for a lawsuit. So does a paper who prints your allegations. You have to line up your witnesses, write a story and if the paper verifies your story, they may consider publishing it.
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14Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: observer (16:09), observer (16:16), observer (18:50)
Nor am I talking about "the alleged cursing and yelling". I'm talking about a concrete event before eye witnesses.
A woman, alias Dick Breath, loudly cursed a resident for reporting general satisfaction with life at Ehatare and describing the campaign of slander and sabotage against it as a form of elder abuse.
The reporter at the event, alias Mr. Deffan-Blind, didn't interview the 'perp' or the victim. He filed a fatuous story, outrageous for its bias. When asked about the verbal assault, he said, "see pole minu asi".
A woman, alias Dick Breath, loudly cursed a resident for reporting general satisfaction with life at Ehatare and describing the campaign of slander and sabotage against it as a form of elder abuse.
The reporter at the event, alias Mr. Deffan-Blind, didn't interview the 'perp' or the victim. He filed a fatuous story, outrageous for its bias. When asked about the verbal assault, he said, "see pole minu asi".
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8"Flaming" would disappear if you did away with anonymous commentary.
If that proved to be insufficient, limit commentary to paid subscribers to the paper as well.
If that proved to be insufficient, limit commentary to paid subscribers to the paper as well.
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1So, the non-investigative reporter, alias Mr. Deffan-Blind, composes reports on Ehatare which are outrageously biased in favour of mob that wanted to lynch the Administrator and, failing that, trash the institution.
His wilful blindness was jeered at, anonymously, by family members of residents. Well, well! This is unacceptable! From their "infantile and insecure positions within the community", the critics can't see that Mr. Deffan-Blind is a wit on the order of Jonathan Swift, no less! They're worried about the welfare of their parents in Ehatare when they should be thinking about our community's image in the Estonian World Review, "with an international readership from over 100 countries".
Given the option of defending their parents and maintaining a phony front for EWR's readers in Lithuania, Egypt, Hawaii, Venezuela, Alaska and 95 other places, who cares? ... only those with an insatiable grudge and nothing to lose if Ehatare is destroyed!
It's time to sober up, Mr. Naelapea!
His wilful blindness was jeered at, anonymously, by family members of residents. Well, well! This is unacceptable! From their "infantile and insecure positions within the community", the critics can't see that Mr. Deffan-Blind is a wit on the order of Jonathan Swift, no less! They're worried about the welfare of their parents in Ehatare when they should be thinking about our community's image in the Estonian World Review, "with an international readership from over 100 countries".
Given the option of defending their parents and maintaining a phony front for EWR's readers in Lithuania, Egypt, Hawaii, Venezuela, Alaska and 95 other places, who cares? ... only those with an insatiable grudge and nothing to lose if Ehatare is destroyed!
It's time to sober up, Mr. Naelapea!
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6... interesting that the administrator has abandoned the good ship Ehatare
... how could that happen ? ... and the commitment level to elderly estonians ?
... how could that happen ? ... and the commitment level to elderly estonians ?
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14Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: go for it (13:48)
The Administrator moved to a job far more senior and, probably, much higher pay.
I'm surprised that she stuck it out at Ehatare for so long, in view of the relentless abuse hurled at her.
I'm disgusted by Management's inability to protect her. They say that they can't do anything, so long as the outstanding lawsuit is being resolved.
That's b.s.! The abusers are third parties, unconnected to Ehatare.
The main organizer is the famous self-appointed patron saint of the "väliseestlased"; alias Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges and during the two-year assault on Ehatare, she has been bathing in the toxic River of Slander. It would be simplicity itself for Management to drown her there with a simple notification of the cost of hiring a lawyer for an hour. Nothing short of that will close her hole!
I'm surprised that she stuck it out at Ehatare for so long, in view of the relentless abuse hurled at her.
I'm disgusted by Management's inability to protect her. They say that they can't do anything, so long as the outstanding lawsuit is being resolved.
That's b.s.! The abusers are third parties, unconnected to Ehatare.
The main organizer is the famous self-appointed patron saint of the "väliseestlased"; alias Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges and during the two-year assault on Ehatare, she has been bathing in the toxic River of Slander. It would be simplicity itself for Management to drown her there with a simple notification of the cost of hiring a lawyer for an hour. Nothing short of that will close her hole!
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8Why are you unwilling to print Ehatare's story?
I'll compose it under my own name and relate some specifics in this dirty war against Ehatare, its residents and staff.
If someone is slandered, they can sue and come out ahead of the game.
Why are you protecting Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges, Dick Breath and the rest of that sleazy mob?
I'll compose it under my own name and relate some specifics in this dirty war against Ehatare, its residents and staff.
If someone is slandered, they can sue and come out ahead of the game.
Why are you protecting Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges, Dick Breath and the rest of that sleazy mob?
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7You-re barking up the wrong tree!
What gave you the impression that Naelapea is unwilling to print
Ehatare story? EWR is not his website. Please do compose your story under your own name as promised and send it to the editors. I'm sure it either will be printed or you'll be clearly told why it is not suitable. Give it a try. A lot of people are waiting to find out exactly what the 'sleazy mob' has done to our society and who is the hero who has the courage to identify them.
What gave you the impression that Naelapea is unwilling to print
Ehatare story? EWR is not his website. Please do compose your story under your own name as promised and send it to the editors. I'm sure it either will be printed or you'll be clearly told why it is not suitable. Give it a try. A lot of people are waiting to find out exactly what the 'sleazy mob' has done to our society and who is the hero who has the courage to identify them.
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11Don't be so sure that EWR is willing to print the Ehatare residents and their familys' side of the story!
Please re-read Naelapea's subtle and gently-nuanced commentary. He says that we "damage the efforts of the expatriate Estonian community to present a healthy and cohesive front to the rest of the world." Are we supposed to?
We're worried about Ehatare and good care for our parents. Naelapea sees that as evidence of our "infantile and insecure positions within the community. (If they can be even considered to be a part of the Estonian-Canadian polity."
Please re-read Naelapea's subtle and gently-nuanced commentary. He says that we "damage the efforts of the expatriate Estonian community to present a healthy and cohesive front to the rest of the world." Are we supposed to?
We're worried about Ehatare and good care for our parents. Naelapea sees that as evidence of our "infantile and insecure positions within the community. (If they can be even considered to be a part of the Estonian-Canadian polity."
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7To paraphrase a famous opossum, the enemy is among us, bizarre as it may seem. EWR should contact the Attorney General to clear up the Alpha Gamma's issues, being as the case is the fervent defender of anonymous attacks - bordering on obsecene that we read here. Aw Gee, maybe we should not publicly "undress" this individual, for we would find out that the emperor has no clothes, is truly naked. Why remain anonymous, if ypou believe in everything you post???
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2I'm exposing myself to a slander suit by publicizing misdeeds against Ehatare and its residents. If anything that I said was false, my identity would be easily exposed.
Yet, when I refer to the names and deeds of the liars and vandals, my remarks are erased. Whose side is the paper on, and why?
And why are Dick Breath, Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges and others unwilling to repeat their lies in public?
Yet, when I refer to the names and deeds of the liars and vandals, my remarks are erased. Whose side is the paper on, and why?
And why are Dick Breath, Our Lady of Perpetual Grudges and others unwilling to repeat their lies in public?
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7In the words of President Dale (played by Jack Nicholson) in the film "Mars Attacks":
Why can't we work out our differences? Why can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we just get along?
Why can't we work out our differences? Why can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we just get along?
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