Estonia, nation within Canada, just like Québec
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Good Idea . . .24 Nov 2006 10:14
Harper would introduce the motion if it meant winning a handful of extra votes.

Don't forget Adu - you're the one that publishes the puff pieces about this gov't!!!
Peep27 Nov 2006 13:17
And it turns out that the Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs was never consulted on the motion!!

Suprise Suprise! So Harper is an authoritarian after all!

And all for a handfull of Quebec votes!?! Ye who voted for the destoyer of Canada should be ashamed!

Shame! Shame! Shame!

PS What is Maxim?
Anna Nüüm24 Nov 2006 10:36
I love it!
Your suggestions for our government are great! (of course, elections would be held in short order, to make sure the majority supports these individuals in their positions)
958 Broadview would be the obvious choice for Parliament, but don't forget that there are many other "tükikesed Eestit" spread across the country. We have Lättemäe, Seedrioru, Jõekääru, Kotkajärve, Oma Tare, various churches and gathering places (I'm sorry, I don't know the names of all the places in the west).
Yes,.... I think it will work.
but24 Nov 2006 14:43
What's the difference with Slovakia - Czech Republic split ?
siil25 Nov 2006 08:42
The French were a nation here before Canada was formed. They were conquered by the English. They have 7 million residents who live and work in the French language. They always have been a conquered nation in Canada.

The only parallel would be Estonia within the USSR.
Not some ragass immigrant living in English Canada.
Jaanus25 Nov 2006 13:24
Is this someone's idea of a joke? Common, we're a community that lost its bearings quite some time ago, and a comparison with the French makes us pale into even greater insignificance. We're lucky to have anything left at all with 2007 just around the corner, so let's stop kidding ourselves by thinking larger than we ever deserved to be.
to Jaanus (aka Maxim)26 Nov 2006 06:44
Every now and again, a mentally-troubled soul with limited intelligence and a malicious disposition can direct our attention to a truth -- yes, Maxim, there is a good bit of pretense in Canada's Estonian community. It's sad but true.
Congratulations, Maxim. But just one swallow doesn't make a summer, we don't expect this to be the beginning of a series and we'd still like you to launch your own web-site, as you promised.
a good joke!26 Nov 2006 10:02
Here's Maxim, a guy that never had any bearings, telling us that we have lost our bearings.
The only fault that I can see in the Estonian community is that more of us haven't gone to more effort to develop our Estonian language skills. If that is what Maxim is referring to, then we have a lot to laugh about in the scene where Maxim -- who can't speak proper English, Estonian, or anything else -- scolding his betters.

Maxim! When you set up your own web-site, be sure to give us the address. You never know; there just might be someone out there who would like to read what you have to say -- just for a laugh, of course.
Huh?26 Nov 2006 10:49
Can't any of you take a joke?
What's with the abusive language?
It's not a joke....26 Nov 2006 16:05
This is a case of politicians trying to be all things to all people. Note that it's Quebec, not French-Canada, that has been declared a nation within Canada. Abakadabra! The province is now a French nation with a substantial English minority, some immigrants and aboriginals thrown in to debase national purity. The balance of the provinces now compose an English nation with a French minority, immigrants and aboriginals just to make things messy. No one has defined the status of minorities yet, possibly because it leads to an infinite regress to the "nationhood" of the smallest discernible group.
This looks like a futile attempt to pacify separatist sentiments in Quebec. Upon closer inspection, it looks like a muddle that will cultivate unrealistic expectations only to cause more strife when they are frustrated. We should prepare ourselves for a period of preposterous political rhetoric from every direction.
By comparison, Estonia might prove to be a quiet place, a good place to seek asylum. I wish that I could read Harri Kivilo's views on working and retiring in Estonia. (Maxim! Don't stick your nose into this. You don't have any credibility. After all, it wasn't long ago that you were planning to go to Russia to get away from Russians. So much for the sense in your head.)
Very Ugly27 Nov 2006 06:36
"...some immigrants and aboriginals thrown in to debase national purity."

Could you make your point without using racist language? I'm not sure that others in this community want to be viewed as hate mongering biggots.
good point27 Nov 2006 06:55
It's interesting to note that the tone of the comments is still one of bigotry and narro-mindedness on the same scale as ever before-and Maxim's nowhere in sight! It says a lot about his critics.
EE_Lugeja27 Nov 2006 07:01
You shouldn't have looked in the mirror this morning ! I don't know what to make of it when someone calls themselves very ugly. Also look up the meaning of racist in the dictionary before labeling the previous commentator. I see nothing in his/her comments to warrant your attack from Europe.
EE_Lugeja27 Nov 2006 07:06
You should leave more than 20 minutes before replying to your own comment Maxim. Try as you may you can't hide yourself.
wow...27 Nov 2006 07:25
Defending this sort of language and attaitude does the entire community - and this wonderful newspaper- a grand disservice.

Agree or disagree with the ideas and opinions but please stop abusing the service provided by the hard working people at EE. Your language betrays the community and make us seem like ignorant fascists.
siil27 Nov 2006 08:23
You are wrong about Quebec being declared a nation within Canada. It is the quebecois(which refers to the original French) that are being declared a nation within Canada. In Estonia during the Czarist empire I would have considered Estonians a nation within the empire despite the fact that there were Germans Russians Jews Swedes and others living for 700 years on the same territory. Considering Estonians own fate I cant understand how they cant relate to the French Canadians striving for recognition.
Not Too Sure27 Nov 2006 08:36
The Estonians are indigenous to Estonia. The French in Quebec are decendents of immigrants just like the rest of us. While Adu is certainly joking about the Estonian nation, Harper's motion opens the door to this absurd notion.

While their culture is unique, so is ours and that of any other Canadian ethnic group. We are equal within a united Canada, and no single group deserves more or less recognition than the other - except perhaps our native people.

The motion, if it truly is a recognition of the ethnic nation, may eventually become a Charter issue in so far is it provides extrordinary recognition to one group above all others and may lead to inequalities within Quebec.

The list goes on . . . it's just a bad idea with potentially difficult consequences, the worst of which is the fragmentation of the REAL nation.
siil27 Nov 2006 11:03
If your criteria for being a nation is being indigenous. Then Canada isnt a nation any more than French Canadians. The only nations are the natives.
Lia27 Nov 2006 11:44
even the natives are immigrants to Canada from Asia...and they are very proud of the fact that they just got here first.
Kes ees see mees...however it stands to reason that Canadian natives are just Estonians who got lost.
Anonymous27 Nov 2006 11:48
True. And they should be recognized as a nation before any others are even considered.

Canada, has grown and become what it is today as a nation of many ethnic minorities united under one government, and one constitution as one civic nation.

Any comparisons to Estonia and the USSR are outrageous. English speaking Canada has never made it a state objective to assimilate French Canadians nor have we used Quebec as an environmental dumping ground nor do we rob Quebec's economy of its revenue (not that there's much to take - and we do take an awful lot from Ontario and Alberta).

The motion is wrong, and MPs from all sides who vote against it tonight should be applauded.
Anonymous27 Nov 2006 11:51
You are absolutely right . . . if we go back far enough.
Peter28 Nov 2006 21:23
Actually, the French and English who came to Canada were not immigrants. They were settlers. Immigrants move from one country to another for financial gain and better opportunities. Settlers are sent by governments to take over empty territories and remake them ethnically and culturally into colonies of the nations that they left.
P29 Nov 2006 07:12
Semantics - some 'settlers' undoubtedly came in search of greener pastures.
clarifying 'national purity'27 Nov 2006 12:40
The term 'national purity' is adapted from the language of the separatists when they describe the Quebecois as a nation. What they have in mind is the descendants of the original French colonists -- les Quebecois pur laine. This doesn't include les Anglais, without regard to the number of generations that have lived in Quebec nor their degree of assimilation into French culture. So, in the separatists' eyes, one can be born a Quebecois, but one cannot become one. For racism, look in that direction. Further details are available from Jacques Parizeau et. al.
Paul Laanemets27 Nov 2006 20:29
This motion for Quebec being a nation in a united Canada has been great.
An Esto Canadian is now in cabinet!
Three cheers for Peter Van Loan and three cheers for Prime Minister Stephen Harper!
Anonymous27 Nov 2006 21:49
Funny that we'd never heard of this Van Loan fella until he needed $$ contributions and votes...
Too bad that he's replacing the bravest member of conservative caucus too. Wonder if he'll botch this job like he did with Lebanon.
to Paul Laanemets28 Nov 2006 09:35
Does the Hon. Van Loan know how to say "yes", "no", "hello", "good-bye" in Estonian?

If not, what's so Estonian about this otherwise (probably) decent guy?
EE_Lugeja28 Nov 2006 11:07
" If not, what's so Estonian about this otherwise (probably) decent guy? " By asking this you show your ignorance. Do a little research on the net . Do you know how to "Google". Or is it that if he knew these words in Russian he would be a true Estonian in your opinion.
to EE_Lugeja28 Nov 2006 15:06
Peter Van Loan doesn't call himself "an Estonian". In stead, he says that he is "of Estonian heritage". There is a difference there. He's equally the product of another heritage; perhaps, Dutch.
For several reasons, I like the fellow. One of them being that he calls things by their real names. If I lived in his riding, I'd vote for him.
Paul Laanemets28 Nov 2006 15:53
Of course there is a technical difference, he isn't a citizen of Estonia. Remember that in Canada when you say someone is an "estonian", this infers they are an estonian canadian and therefore "of estonian heritage"

I can say though in support, I like the fellow too.
Mikk29 Nov 2006 07:10
Ignorant? He has never referred to his Estonian 'background' and only made reference once3 he decided to run. And the Estonians in the riding fell for it. It's called POLITICS.

Also: check the committee minutes from the summer: Van Loan was vacationing during the Lebanon crisis. McKay couldn't even defend him. He's an embarrasment to his party and the country.
Funniest of all is that he was put into roll that was confirmed as redundant by the outgoing minister (aren't all minsters redundant under Herr Harper).
Rauno Kurgja29 Nov 2006 08:33
Question to Maxim; what do you think of this topic of discussion?
Peter29 Nov 2006 09:05
I have not seen Maxim on this site for a while and am not surprised since so many of the people here were so rude to him.
P29 Nov 2006 09:24
Yes it's too bad. Other than a few randomly abusive comments by people like EE_lugeja this discussion string has been very interesting and stimulating. I do hope that Maxim comes back or starts up his blog.
to Peter30 Nov 2006 18:21
Maxim hasn't completely disappeared. He still pops up in subdued form in order to advertise himself.
Re-read P's most recent comment and tell me that it isn't Maxim.
No one could duplicate Maxim's style, no matter how hard they tried because every kook has a unique style of confusion. It's as individual as handwriting.
to Mikk30 Nov 2006 07:43
In fact during the over 20 years that Peter Van Loan has participated in Estonian events, he has always refered to himself as Estonian, already as a student, much before entering politics. If you don't know the facts, keep you job shut.
Mikk03 Dec 2006 09:18
Fabricating facts doesn't change the fact that Van Loan is an Estonian of convenience.
Such antics are repulsive.
the identity question30 Nov 2006 09:37
Can Peter Van Loan speak any Estonian?

If not, he should be referred to as a Canadian of Estonian extraction. We can say that without hypocrisy and Peter can say it with some pride.
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