Lugeja kommentaar. Üleskutse Toronto eestlastele! Trans. ENG!
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
lugeja05 Feb 2018 10:55
I wish I could say I don't believe a word of this.
Observer05 Feb 2018 13:07
It is ever so unfortunate that articles on this site are not fact checked. Plenty of fantasy at play here. Tartu College is a separate entity. Why is the author confused about this?
Confused06 Feb 2018 17:33
So, what is Tartu College?

What does it mean to say that Tartu College, the organization, and Tartu College, the student residence, are “separate entities”? And who owns the building? People are unclear about this.

“Tartu Residence” is depicted as part of “Tartu Organization”:

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

Why not ask Mihkel Tombak, professor at Rotman School of Business, or someone, to give a primer on this. Was he not at the helm of the Estonian Bank (ETCU, now ECU) when it purchased 11 Madison, at the same time Tartu College was restructured (2014)?

Why is the Mission Statement in Estonian only? Why is it strictly financial?:

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

The Executive Committee are the same people as the Board of Directors, 4 vs 10 or 25. The Chair and the President are the same person. The Board of Directors are identified as members of specific frats and sororities. What does all this mean?

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

“Participating organizations” are frats and sororities:

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

A password is required for the Minutes of the Annual Meeting and the Financial Statements.
Tartu deciding factor05 Feb 2018 14:10
It may be a separate entity, but the whole purpose of building a center on Madison originated from Tartu already being there.
Observer05 Feb 2018 17:44
It's one thing for the new EH and Tartu College to be neighbours. That should bring about certain synergies. But a takeover by TC of EH. Pure fantasy. I have been at all the town halls and info sessions, and there has never been mention of this. The author is certainly good at spinning conspiracy theories. The author has a very colourful past. The curious should investigate.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Observer (13:07)
Short memory06 Feb 2018 06:12
I was wondering why this guy was returned to Canada... I guess now we know!
onlooker06 Feb 2018 10:08
all projects have supporters and opponents and the EH regardless of location is the same. unfortunately the lack of information release in early 2017 has increased an existing rift and now we find a conspiracy theory rising to the fore. while truly confidential info must be sheltered facts need to be released so that energy (and money) is not spent on meaningless actions. as in the USA a bipartisan effort is the only way out of an ever expanding morass!
regardless of the site, show me the money, what it will achieve, and where it will come from!
TC08 Feb 2018 10:22
OLETUS: “Me teame et eestlastel on teinegi maja – Tartu College. Õieti muidugi mitte eestlastel vaid ühel eesti perekonnal.”
FAKT: Jah, Tartu College on ka eestlaste maja! Aga Tartu College’il ei ole ühtegi omaniku! TARTU COLLEGE oli liikmete põhiselt inkorporeeritud novembri 8ndal 1967 aastal Ontario valitsuse ‘Letters Patenti’ tingimustel, (et hooldada ja käitada elamishoone Toronto ülikooli õpilastele), “without share capital” ja “without purpose or gain for its members and any profits or other accretions to the Corporation shall be used in promoting its objects”, millesse on sissearvestatud haridus-ja kultuurilised eesmärgid.

OLETUS: “On kuulda et nemad [Tartu College]on teinud väga suured (10 miljonit) laenud, osaliselt ka Eesti Pangast. Kuna seda Eesti Maja müüki on aetud juba päris kaua aega siis ilmselt laenud tehtigi selle kuraasiga, et varsti on suured rahad tulemas.”
FAKT: Tartu College on laenu võtnud kohalikkudelt finants organisatsioonidelt, et teha remonte nii et maja oleks paremas korras ja turvalisem. Tartu laen on praegu $7.2 miljonit ja aasta intressi maksud on umbes 7% aasta sissetulekust. Vihje, et Tartu College on kuidagi saanud erilise ‘kuraasi’ on vale, kõik laenud on tehtud päevakohase ‘kuraasiga’.

OLETUS: “Skeem oli lihtne: Tartu College on küll Eesti Maja aktsiate omanik aga see ei anna kokku enamust.”
FAKT: Tartu College’il ei ole ühtegi Eesti Maja aksiat.

OLETUS: “Soovitus Tartu College omanikele: miks te võlgade katteks oma maja ei müü. Kas tõesti peab kogu Toronto eestlaskond seda tegema? Kindlasti saaksite selle pilvelõhkuja eest, mis pealegi on väga ’’suursuguses’’ asukohas, väga suure summa. Kindlasti jääks üle omalegi.”
FAKT: Tartu College täidab oma laenu kohustuded iga kuu, nii kuidas on laenulepingus määratud. Tartu õpilaste kuumaksud katavad laenumaksud. Nagu varem mainitud, mitteükski liige (või teine inimene) ei saa kasu, kui Tartu College läheks müügile. Kui Tartu oleks mahamüüdud, siis tulu müügist (Lettres Patenti tingimustel) läheb Estonian Studies Centerile (VEMU) ja Chair of Estonian Studies Foundationile (Eestlaste Toronto Ülikooli Õpetool).

Artikli autor peab vabandama oma valede eest!
EWR peab tegema paremini, et valeinfomatsioon (FAKE NEWS) ei tule nende veebisaitist.

T. Trei
To TC08 Feb 2018 11:39
Make your comment available also in English. That is the language of most of the TC website which is the only information to which people have had access. I do not recall any clarification in public. Why shouldn't people be wondering? How are Tartu College, the organization, and Tartu College, the student residence - and the building - which was constructed largely with government for non-profit, i.e. taxpayer, monies - related exactly?
There's an obvious parallel in that Estonian House was constructed with charitable funding and a lot of volunteer work by people who are still alive and active and others whose legacy people want to respect. Who will see the proceeds of a sale, and under what circumstances and provisions? The "mission" of Tartu College as stated on its website is strictly financial.

At the last information meeting Jaan Meri, Pres and Chair, was asked about the 50 year lease reported in the Toronto newspapers and soon coming to an end. He said "there was no lease". Follow-up question: how does he think all the Toronto papers got this wrong?

http://www.tartucollege.org/go...

http://www.eesti.ca/pdf/2017/1...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Confused (17:33)
onlooker08 Feb 2018 12:36
T.T. good start to the facts but unfortunately not enough for the conspiracy theorists. open minds should not let side issues dominate the real questions that spin around the fate of E.M. there are still many questions for both options that need answering and hopefully the answers can start the healing process for the rift. while not everybody will be reconciled in the end meetings such as the info session on the 31st need to continue engaging both factions with substantiated facts. Real facts debunk conspiracies!
Time for Tact11 Feb 2018 20:26
On the TC website is Tampõld’s overview of the financing of TC, TI (now the Estonian Studies Centre) and Chair of Estonian Studies. It was the fraternities and sororities that justified the non-profit and educational status which allowed TC to secure extraordinary funding - 90% of construction costs at minimal interest with a 50-year mortgage. They have also been for all this time the beneficiaries of 10000 square feet of debt-free rooms free-of-charge. “Meie intiimorganisatsioonide huvi näis aga piirduvat peamiselt oma ajaviite ja seltskondliku tegevuse viljelemises”. Nevertheless, even as new programs were instituted, “Akadeemiline Kodu oma kodukorraga jäi alumise korruse peremeheks. .”

Is there not a double standard? Why not sell a house belonging to one of the frats and sororities? Numbers of participants and activities have dwindled. Some have spoken resignedly of letting them die a natural death. And why is it, after all, that TC does not have any shares in Estonian House? How was it that ETCU obtained shares in EH for the cost of construction, when others could not?

These questions and so many others require not the either-or of desperation, but time for tact and the virtue of concentration. The community that has thrived here has so much to offer and expect from the discussion.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Confused (17:33), To TC (11:39)
Enno Õunapuu09 Feb 2018 16:47
Kui mina oma artiklis seoses Eesti Maja müügiafääriga pidasin peamiseks eestvedajaks alusetult Tartu Colleget ja härra Meri perekonda siis ma palun vabandust kui see nii ei ole. See on küll väga laialt levinud arvamus ja põhjus selleks on loomulikult see et miks seda uut ehitust just tingimatta sinna Tartu College kaissu on vaja ehitada. Võta kinni kes see peamine patuoinas neist on või on kõik võrdselt. Mina ei ole kunagi sallinud omakasupüüdlikku ebaõiglust. Seda ei salli väga paljud muudki, kuid kõik ei julge seda välja ütelda.
See et uus keskus tahetakse ehitada Toronto kõige ebasobivamale kohale on rumaluse tipp. Suuri ehituskrunte on tõesti väga raske leida, aga selle eramaja suurust krunti leidub küll ja küll, palju väiksema hinnaga, kus on normaalsed ehitamistingimused, kus põrand ei tärise iga 5 minuti järel kui rong alt läbi sõidab, mis asub keskkonna sõbralikus kohas, kus liiklus on rahulik ja uksed ei pea ka päeval lukus olema. Aga seda me teame küll et need isikud, kes selle projekti taga on ei ole kindlast rumalad. Ei ole vaja mingeid konspiratsiooni teooriaid mõistmiseks et siin on mingid teised huvid mängus.
Tartu Collegest on minul alati hea ja soe arvamus olnud, seda alates 1983 aastast. Nimelt selle aasta lõpupoole algasid järgmise aasta Esto jaoks operti ’’Kaluri neiu’’ proovid ja selle lavastaja Lidia Vohu kutsus ka mind seal osalema. Kui ta selgitas et proovid toimuvad Tartu Colleges, lisas kohe et parkimine on seal olemas. Ka nüüd seal koori proovis on väga meeldiv käia. Aga see idüll kaob ju kohe kui see parkla täis ehitatakse. Kui sa pead kõigepealt sõitma kuhugi subway jaama, kui on õnne siis leidma vaba parkimiskoha, siis maksma $ 8-10 tunni eest, siis lähed rongi ootama ja kui teed vale ajarehkenduse siis tagasitulles leidma kopsaka trahvikviitungi tuuleklaasilt.
Niisiis tavalise 20-30 min. asemel läheb sul aega 1-12 tundi. Ja seda nii minnes kui tulles, rääkimata veel rahalistest kulutustest. Ega subwayssegi ilma rahata saa. Me räägime ju harrastustes ja hobidest, mis peaks sulle rõõmu ja rahuldust pakkuma, nii seal olemine kui ka sinna minek ja tulek. Aga kui see on tülikas ja vaevarikas, nõuab suurt aja- ja rahakulu, siis sa lihtsalt otsid omale muu harrastuse.
Tuletan veel kord meelde et see eestlastele väga-väga sobiv koht on juba ammu olemas. Loobuge oma ambitsioonidest, andke Eesti Maja õigetesse kätesse ja te näete kuidas see uuesti õitsema lööb.
Enno Õunapuu
Õiged käed?11 Feb 2018 02:05
"andke Eesti Maja õigetesse kätesse ja te näete kuidas see uuesti õitsema lööb" - palun seleta kelle käed on õiged.
Lisaks eelmisele11 Feb 2018 05:38
Ühelgi majal pole õigemaid käsi kui selle peremehe, antud juhul aktsionäride omad, ja need on oma otsuse langetanud. On seda nii raske mõista?
Enno Õunapuu11 Feb 2018 09:46
'' Õiged käed'' on need Toronto eestlased kes on seda maja nii minevikus kui ka praegu armastanud, kes seda pidevalt kasutavad ja kes ei näe selles ainult objekti, mis on vaja kindlasti rahaks vahetada ja kelle eestseisjaks on praegu Eesti Maja Sõbrad.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Enno Õunapuu (16:47)
To "lisaks eelmisele"27 Feb 2018 16:11
In the vote to sell, the Estonian Credit Union had a deciding bloc of shares. Even how they got those shares for bank loans now indebting Eesti Maja is controversial. But leaving that aside, it means the directors of the ECU i.e. a handful of unelected people effectively decided the fate of EM. Although within their legal rights, they did this without consulting THEIR share holders in the bank, many of whom disagreed with their initiative. It could have even been a majority objecting. We'll never know.

How can this be morally construed as: "aktsionäärid...on oma otsuse langetanud" (shareholders have made their decision) though perhaps true in the narrowly legalistic sense?

It will be a pyrrhic victory for Madison if the Broadview sale to PARTIALLY fund it goes ahead on such lack of consensus in the larger Estonian community who feel they're not being represented against narrower interests that are unclear.
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